Not every person who voted democratic in 2008 is an obot
Posted by: taggles on: April 20, 2009
What is an obot? We may have slightly differing definitions based on our own experiences.
My definition of an obot is someone who hated Hillary, bullied, used vulgar language, participated in sexist attacks, cried racism and truly bought into the Obama/Axelrod/Media astroturf campaign of hope and change and was insistent that we all agree. We had the displeasure of meeting them on the internet and some in personal life. However, they represent a miniscule percentage of people who voted Democratic and for Obama in 2008.
Here’s why many Democrats are not obots. Most people who voted Democratic just wanted Bush and his party the hell out of there. They didn’t want to entrust the same party, that just finished screwing us over for eight years. That was the only change they were looking for, a change from the party that brought us to the brink of economic Armageddon. Many people who voted Democratic, realize now, that Obama is no better than Bush. These voters did not abuse us on blogs, weren’t sexist, and weren’t accusing us of racism. Also, there were many Hillary supporters who did not join us simply because they could not bring themselves to vote Republican for any reason. Now, we may hold the PUMA high ground over these voters, but that is very short sighted. Especially now that Obama is proving himself to be the third Bush term.
OBVIOUSLY, this does NOT mean that the Democratic Party is the answer to our woes. In fact, they are far from the answer. As PUMAs, we know they do not represent the ideals that they once stood for. This is why we became PUMAs in the first place. PUMA came into existence when Hillary supporters from the left blogosphere decided they had enough and weren’t going to take the abuse from the obots any longer. It then became a movement to help Hillary have her name placed into the roll call vote. Then, due to his stealing of the primary, with help from the DNC, it became a movement to deny Obama the presidency. PUMAs used their votes as weapons to protest.
What I’m really saying, is that we should be reaching out to disaffected Democrats who have recently or will soon discover that Obama is no better than Bush. That both parties are rotten to the core. Including their paid and bought for media on both sides.
I would also like to point out that the republicans are just as responsible as any democrat for Obama’s victory. Many of them voted for him (especially during the primaries) or they stayed home and did not vote (in the general). But yet our only target of hostility seems to be toward any democrat who voted for Obama. PUMA has welcomed many right leaning PUMAs, but any left leaning person who voted for Obama, for the reasons outlined above, is immediately labeled an obot. We do not seem to want to reach out to these potential PUMAs on the left.
This is a mistake.
First off, it boxes us into only growing the movement from the right.
Secondly, it precludes us from garnering members who are much closer to us ideologically.
Thirdly, this type of strategy does not offer a balance for any left leaning PUMA who has been here from the beginning.
For instance, I myself have been called an obot and/or some form there of. This usually happens when I criticize right wing blowhards, like Hannity, Beck and Rush. Or, if I dare quote or use a left source who supported Obama during the primaries, even when it is extremely critical of him. Now don’t try to tell me that Hannity, Rush and Limbaugh have ever supported Hillary Clinton. And besides that they brought us George W. Bush.
I would like to see the movement grow not only from the right but also from the left.
141 Responses to "Not every person who voted democratic in 2008 is an obot"
April 20, 2009 at 6:38 PM
However, they represent a miniscule percentage of people who voted Democratic and for Obama in 2008.
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I don’t think it’s miniscule percentage; it’s somehow related to human psychology. After a few more years, the media will start reporting the stories that show Obama is unfit to be President and it will end up just like Bush, with 33% dead ender support for Obama.
“That we shouldn’t reach out to our own families, even?”
Well, I’m going to visit my sister later this week and give it a try. During the primary season, she asked me what I thought of Obama. Me: “Do you want my honest opinion?” She: “Yes” Me: “Well, at first I didn’t care which Dem won but after doing some research, I think Obama is a corrupt, sociopathic fraud”…she hasn’t spoken to me much since then.
April 20, 2009 at 6:40 PM
The only problem I have with “obots” is the fact that most of them cannot accept the fact he was/is a fraud and that they were duped. They cannot (apparently) accept that they were taken for a ride. Is it due to their “superior intellect”? Who knows.
I’m more than willing to welcome them into the fold and I promise I won’t shout “I told ya so!” very often.
April 20, 2009 at 6:42 PM
SHV, most people do not even read blogs or know what they are. So, the percentage of the obots that we ran into on the web is miniscule.
I will be very interested to learn how it goes with your sister. Will you let us know?
April 20, 2009 at 6:45 PM
Fredster, that might be the hardest part of all ~ Not saying, “I told ya so!”
April 20, 2009 at 6:47 PM
I think a lot of people did not have all the facts when they voted. Not all have access to the internet and msm failed in their job to report facts not opinions.
Some would not believe that the democratic party would stoop so low and work against the best of the democratic candidates.
4 years ago I would not have believed what was done by the DNC. I thought only the republicans stole elections. Every thing I believed in about the democratic party was destroyed this election cycle. Maybe because most true democrats were rejected this election I am more angry at the dems than the reps. You always expect more of your own.
The only good thing that came out of this mess is that more people are aware and will take more care when they vote.
WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS
PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE
April 20, 2009 at 6:55 PM
Yes, helen, the media is a failure, they are the reason we keep getting unprepared presidents. they don’t even perform cursory investigations it seems.
April 20, 2009 at 7:45 PM
How many want to bet, if Hillary decides to run – ever – we will still have to hear the lies about Bill Clinton and Monica – I have never understood why she doesn’t sue their a** every time they make a wise crack about her – she is not a public figure.
CAROL HAKA 
April 20, 2009 at 7:50 PM
We got what the corporations paid for, and the media is run by the corporations.
I have two Dems I’ve been talking to at work. They both voted Obama and are realizing that he is not who he thought they were. They were very open to hearing what I had to say. I haven’t said the word PUMA yet. I’ll give it another month or two.
My whole family is Obotic, except me. I’m guessing my brother will be the first to admit Obama is doing a terrible job as president. My dad and stepmom are going to take a lot longer, I think.
Good luck SHV! Slow and steady could win that race for you.
April 20, 2009 at 7:50 PM
OT but more bad on BadNewsBarry cohorts
In today’s local paper, on page 8 with the obituaries, down at the bottom, last column, is a short blurb which mentions that Al Sharpton was fined 285K for having violated Federal Elections Laws by accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars in funds from private sources during his 2004 primary campaign. This decision will be announced next month, but Sharpton’s spokeswoman said the story was “grossly inaccurate”.
When do you suppose we’ll hear something on Obama’s fines for his “grossly inaccurate” reporting of campaign contributions in the 2008 primaries?
April 20, 2009 at 7:52 PM
Taggles- I get practice every Tuesday Night I want to say “I told you so” every chance I get. The desire to not spoil my dinner keeps me in check.
I can tell you one night I am gonna come out and say “Gosh you would think Rove would be happy Obama morphed right inot bush before our very eyes! Now maybe Rush and Hannity will come around!”
April 20, 2009 at 7:55 PM
Taggles, I could care less if anyone woted for Barack Obama. That would be their business, and I do not question their motivation. That said, I beliebe firmly that I had the absolute right to NOT vote for Barack Obama, without anyone questioning my motivations, or name-calling. I have any number of friends who voted for him. Some are still not questioning a damned thing that he does, despite being well-educated individuals who do not usually display this ongoing absence of critical thinking. I have some other friends whom I know are beginning to wonder, but have not yet been able to utter their misgivings aloud. I think that this will be much like George Bush. Clearly he was elected and re-elected, but I cxannot find a soul who ever remembers voting for him.
April 20, 2009 at 7:56 PM
LOL Fuzzy!
Plainjane, it’s amazing what these corrupt pols get away with. Amazing!
P.S. As usual, I agree with HelenK. She is a very wise woman.
April 20, 2009 at 8:04 PM
Excellent post, Taggles and I am glad you are having this discussion.
April 20, 2009 at 8:11 PM
Chatblu, I think you are right there will be new definition for obamnesia! LOL
April 20, 2009 at 8:15 PM
I have family and friends of which some are Democrats and Independents. Many of my family and friends voted for Obama. They did not want to but felt that any Democrat was better than a Republican. Personally, I could not rationalize that to myself after what happened in the primary. I held my nose and cast a protest vote for McCain. The only thing that was good about that, to me, was that there was a woman on his ticket.
If Obama is the only one on the Democratic ticket come 2012 I will be going topless! (and trust me no one will care)
I am glad that you want to open the door for disenfranchised left leaners.
April 20, 2009 at 8:36 PM
chatblu – “ongoing absence of critical thinking.” – Hysterical
CAROL HAKA
April 20, 2009 at 8:42 PM
Kerry’s brother get nominated to BO’s cabinet as Council to the Department of Commerce – do ya think he has any dirt on him?
CAROL HAKA
April 20, 2009 at 8:46 PM
John Kerry is my Senator. He endorsed Obama before we even had our primary. Massachusetts went to Hillary by about 15 points.
I think there might be some quid pro quo goings on.
April 20, 2009 at 8:53 PM
taggles – ya think???????
CAROL HAKA
I wonder where he will try to put Caroline next! She would have done better to stay hidden from site and maintained her reputation as a princess! Sad.Obama.taking.down.so.so.many! And we ain’t done yet!
April 20, 2009 at 8:57 PM
Jesus, God, Mary, Joseph, and I am not even religious. I feel like I have found home after four months in exile wandering the desert!!!
I am one of those long term Independents that could not vote for McCain or Obama, and I got so much heat for it. I was even called an obot during the GE battles even after all my work for Hillary and hours, minutes, days spent at HC.com. So many knew my login name as I never changed it, and that so cut like a knife to be called an obot, even when I was still fighting alongside Puma through the GE.
Mother Mary and Sweet Jesus (and keep religion out of government and government out of religion, by the way). I am doing the la-tee-da dance all over the place!!!!
April 20, 2009 at 9:03 PM
La-t-da, Hi there friend. Welcome home! These people are really inviting people like you and me in. Yipeeeeeeee
April 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM
Ok I have on thing that pisses me off and that is to be told “…people living alternative lifestyles …” I am sorry but that is a line I cannot abide…
I do not live an alternate lifestyle…I live a life…I am educating at the confluence again…
April 20, 2009 at 9:09 PM
gary I got this right hugh?
“really you may be uneducated (bloggers name) but “…people living alternative lifestyles…” is a fundamentalist christian code word/phrase for “dieviant lifestyle”.. I really would preffer to be called “F@GGOTT” because I would at least know where I stood.
Alternative lifestyle assumes a superior lifestyle exsists and is preferred and desired by all it really offends me that I have to listen to that crap…(edited to protect my sanity)…
If you were uninformed about that I will take your ignorance under advisement. Could someone put atlernative lifestyle in the spam filter next to R@cist…
Santa Vaca I am beginning to sound like rachel Maddow some one get me a vomit bucket”
April 20, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Sorry, Taggles I see it differently. PUMAS were not, ever, only from the left blogosphere. I understand your eagerness to kick our Republican friends to the curb to restore purity of liberal ideals to the movement, but the truth is we (and Hillary) were supported by many, many disaffected Republicans, who now are being told, on various PUMA sites, that they are not needed anymore. I have, for this reason, left all the PUMA sites I used to visit and I am going to leave this one as soon as this post leaves my comp. board. I find what we are doing not better than what the Democratic Party did to us.
Good luck to you all.
April 20, 2009 at 9:21 PM
I’m giving the next exodus of Obots a little more time to lick their wounds. I can now see that puppy dog look on their face. I’m going to give them a little more time to grieve that the Messiah didn’t return, and then I’m going after them and say “Come to Mama and grow up!”
April 20, 2009 at 9:26 PM
I agree we must grow from the left as well as the center…
I swear I am gonna market a few bumper sitckers:
“Dont like Gay Marriage…Dont marry a gay man”
“dont like Lesbian marriage….Dont marry a Lesbian”
how can a simple concept as this be oblivious to those get goverment off my back right wingers thay are so busy putting goverment into our bedrooms and pretty much everywhere else…
April 20, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Bella, I am not kicking anyone out of anything. Did you not read the last sentence of my post. We need to grow from the left as well as the right and anyone who has an issue with that might just be the one who is stifling growth.
Plus, if people agreed with Hillary they should have no troubles with a liberal view point, should they??
April 20, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Bella Napoli – I hope you come back when you realize that we are not doing what you think we’re doing.
If you respect us and agree with the broad outlines of what we’re saying, then you’re welcome here.
What we don’t want is a bunch of Republicans telling us we can’t be liberal PUMAs. That is what we’ve been experiencing.
April 20, 2009 at 9:29 PM
wait rebublicans supported hillary hen why did so many of them fvote for obama in states that allowed crossover voting?
Bella sorry you are offended but really can you say you support the ERA or even LGBT rights?
April 20, 2009 at 9:29 PM
P.S. Fuzzy – you are not living a lifestyle, you are being yourself. I find that terminology incredibly insulting as well!
{{{{fuzzy}}}}
April 20, 2009 at 9:33 PM
I’m not living a lifestyle either. I am being myself right beside you, Fuzzy!
April 20, 2009 at 9:35 PM
and we really cant ignore those issues “for PUMA Unity Sake” if so we are no better than the Obots. What we need progressive yankee style chafee republicans reagan republicans bush republicans not so much!
April 20, 2009 at 9:38 PM
hay angie I love your larger avitar here you look so beautiful like audrey hepburn and madamab so kathleen turner….from body heat not war of the roses…where she is in St Lucia on the beach hair pulled back behind her head….
April 20, 2009 at 9:39 PM
What we don’t want is a bunch of Republicans telling us we can’t be liberal PUMAs. That is what we’ve been experiencing.
*******
Maybe I am a cynic but I find it a bit hard to believe that people whose politics are a reflection of Rush and Glenn Beck would vote for Hillary. Hillary is a liberal and people who trash liberalism won’t vote for her no matter what they say.
April 20, 2009 at 9:40 PM
In defense of Bella — a lot of people on the left & right were disgusted with Bush & were willing to vote for any “D” just for the sake of change. That is why it is so pathetic that Obama had to spend $1 billion to win by 52% — and contrary to the Obot talking points, that ain’t a landslide, not by a long shot.
April 20, 2009 at 9:40 PM
LOL fuzzy, that’s the first time I’ve been compared to Kathleen Turner! hahahaha
Hi angie, I’m here! I’m just about to get going though.
XOXOXO
April 20, 2009 at 9:42 PM
SHV – Don’t underestimate the female factor. It got a lot of us Dem women to vote for McPalin.
But…I understand and appreciate your cynicism. I think it is well-earned.
April 20, 2009 at 9:43 PM
I have asked before how do I refresh the thread without posting a comment?
At the conflu I just hit the title of the thread and it refreshed automatically…doesnt work here
April 20, 2009 at 9:44 PM
fuzzy — I hit the arrow thingy pointing to the right in a kind of circle on the top of the screen.
April 20, 2009 at 9:46 PM
SHV I guess a hijacking starts this way first they come on as fellow travelers engaged in the dialog pretty soon they hijack the dialog…then they become the arbitor of the dilog and next they have cooped the PUMA movement into the opposite of what it was…
April 20, 2009 at 9:46 PM
uzzybeargville permalink
I have asked before how do I refresh the thread without posting a comment?
********
F5 on a Mac.
April 20, 2009 at 9:51 PM
SHV I guess a hijacking starts this way first they come on as fellow travelers engaged in the dialog pretty soon they hijack the dialog…then they become the arbitor of the dilog and next they have cooped the PUMA movement into the opposite of what it was…
*********
That is sorta my take…The most obvious example would be “I love Hillary..blah..blah…and the “Democrat” party and the ACLU are destroying America…blah..blah..
April 20, 2009 at 9:52 PM
Thanks taggles. I understand PUMA as a name and movement that were inspired originally by Hillary and last year’s election. But as a voting bloc, PUMA has been around a very long time, at the base of the Party formerly known as the Democrats, as loyal constituents who could be counted on (and taken for granted) at every general election. That changed last year of course. And as I always like to hear, the PUMAs did not leave the Party. The Party left PUMAs.
A 100 days into this administration, and I have no idea what or who the Democratic Party is anymore. Obama and his supporters? Pelosi and her majority in Congress? Both appear vulnerable to me, especially with this economy. PUMA stand for principles that will always appeal to moderates and independents. But if Obama falters, the wave coming to PUMA will be bigger from the left than from the right, imo. I would not be able to vote for Romney or for Gingrich in 2012. It’s either going to be an Independent, a radically transformed and matured Obama, or none of the above. There may be other scenarios, it’s early.
I will try getting through the next three years not consumed by Obama and Obot hatred. I will not forget, will not forgive. But also refuse to capitulate to the obsession. If an Obama voter wants to speak with me with an open mind about the future, I am happy to engage. I would be equally happy to engage is same conversation with any Conservative who leans liberal on social issues or moderate on economic ones. That’s where my head’s at for now.
April 20, 2009 at 10:04 PM
Well said, TW. thank you, for your thoughts.
I think that is a very reasonable position! 
April 20, 2009 at 10:08 PM
Hi everyone…
*******************FYI
This Wednesday at 8:00pm, the View from Under the Bus returns with an hour and a half of PUMAtastic fun and important dish.
In addition to a whole line-up of Wankers deserving a big shot of Cheeze Whiz, we’ll find out:
Who’s Under the Bus?
Who is being inducted into the Hall of Fame?
Who is being nailed to the Wall of Shame?
and
Who’s HERstory will we tell?
This week, for Autism Awareness Month, we’ll also be discussing the unfortunate reality of doctors failing to properly diagnose Asperger’s Syndrome in females.
Check out our website for links and show information:
http://www.theviewfromunderthebus.wordpress.com
April 20, 2009 at 10:11 PM
hey everyone!! I’m kinda busy tonight, but just wanted to say hello I’ll try to catch up to the conversation later.
April 20, 2009 at 10:17 PM
hey SOD, we’ll be sure to tune in! Sounds like a great show!
April 20, 2009 at 10:18 PM
Oh thanks taggles. But that comment was actually meant for my wife. We’re having negotiations. Not to worry. I’m a diehard PUMA. She’s a wavering Obafan.
Be back in a few.
April 20, 2009 at 10:20 PM
Well, not sure if my comment helped you or not in your negotiations, but I hope so!
April 20, 2009 at 10:36 PM
Don’t PUMAs represent people who want their voices heard.
Both parties no longer represent the American voter.
I am sure there a republicans that feel as we do and want some of the same things.
100% agreement on each and every issue = absence of free thinking.
I know that is NOT a PUMA principle.
Madamab
Thank you for your kind words
WOMAN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS
PUMAS, BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE
April 20, 2009 at 10:44 PM
Helenk, I doubt that there will be 100% agreement on any issue between left leaning PUMAs. We have never walked lock-step, even when we were part of the Democratic party.
April 20, 2009 at 10:46 PM
Well, I think this may fall under the auspices of the thread topic. I just returned from a union meeting, as our division is faced with oblivion, essentially. When given the opportunity in the past, I always joined the union. In this instance, I have yet to do so. We are represented by SEIU, and i am still concerned regarding some of the antics that they were engaged in during the primaries and the election. Most of my co-workers are well-meaning, yet naive democrats. I am working to assist our cause, but feel so bamboozled by the union, I am hesitant to take the next step. Any opinions?
April 20, 2009 at 10:48 PM
Well, I waited long enough for that answer, where’d ya go? I get lagged even on short flights.
April 20, 2009 at 10:49 PM
I was chatting with madamab about Wednesday’s show.
Love ya MB!!
xoxo
April 20, 2009 at 10:50 PM
Fuzzy,
I am a liberal. I support LGBT rights, the ERA, choice (for other women, not for me personally), and Hillary. I also support Israel (by the way, today is the Day of Rimembrance for the victim of the Holocaust: and on this of all days, the UN chose Ahmedineja Obots, for me are all those people Dems, Rep. or Ind. who refused to listen to life long Dems and would not accept any criticism of their chosen one. They refused to investigate or research anything concerning him and simply accepted what the Party was putting in front of them. I am very bitter about this. And I was hoping PUMAS were different, that they would work on what united us with the Rep. who joined us in the fight and find a new way forward. My mistake.
April 20, 2009 at 10:50 PM
lililam, I wish I could help, I just don’t know that much about it.
Hopefully, someone who is knowledgeable about that will answer.
April 20, 2009 at 10:52 PM
Great points! I am hearing now from my community garden Obama voters – who were enthusiastic supporters – but not – to my knowledge Hillary bashers “I am starting to agree with you” We need to make common front with those people.
April 20, 2009 at 10:55 PM
sorry so late to the discussion. I just read the post, and while I agree with most of what you said, I do think that anyone who voted for Obama is an Obot. They either participated in the lies and sexism and false charges of racism, or they ignored it and voted for him anyway. Or even worse they were too unaware to even know what was going on (they’re the real robots in the bunch). We may be able to rehabilitate them, but they were obots. just my opinion
That said, there is a big distinction I see. I voted Democratic, except for the top of the ticket, and I don’t think I am an obot, so yeah, people who voted democratic aren’t obots, but for me, if they voted for Obama, they are (or were) an obot.
April 20, 2009 at 10:55 PM
Bella, we are not willing to accept anything the democratic party puts in front of us. What in the world would lead you to think that?
PUMA’s voted for Sarah, that doesn’t make us republicans. Republicans voted for hillary, that doesn’t make them democrats. So I am not understanding what your point is??
April 20, 2009 at 11:02 PM
Gary, you know I prolly won’t fully agree. I can’t imagine every single person who voted for Obama, was sexist, race baiting. They might have been turfed by the the DNC and media. I guess we could attribute it to them out of their plain ignorance and not paying attention. But I don’t think that is totally fair.
On the other hand, those bullying, immature, race baiting, sexist pig, homophobic rat bastids are a completely different story.
April 20, 2009 at 11:05 PM
personally I don’t care what party somebody used to belong to, but I can’t imagine being affiliated with either party ever again. But since those are my choices I will probably end up voting for mostly democrats. I will never vote for obama though. ever. I don’t care if it is gingrich/huckabee on the other ticke. I’ll write in santa claus first.
April 20, 2009 at 11:07 PM
I don’t think any PUMA will ever vote for Barack Obama. We got that angle covered, that’s for sure!
April 20, 2009 at 11:07 PM
Please, lets not condemn the American public for being uninformed — come on — that’s the vast majority out there! LOL
April 20, 2009 at 11:08 PM
those people that vote out of plain ignorance who are not paying attention are the ones who swing elections. It is enough to drive you crazy. That’s why we have a celebrity president. he was the “cool” one. I fear most of them are lost causes. They also voted for bush because he saved us from 9/11. that’s why are media is so powerful. they very easily manipulate that group of people. We have to convince the ones that bought all the misogyny and lies and joined in with the astroturfers at the top that they were misled and that they behaved very badly. And that is going to be very difficult to do.
April 20, 2009 at 11:10 PM
As for me, I will have no problem voting for a candidate based on him or her individually regardless of party.
Although if anyone runs who supported Obama, I’m not promising that I will not specifically voted against him or her as long as the person on the other side reasonably resembles a decent human being.
April 20, 2009 at 11:11 PM
angie…I watched idiocracy again last night, so that might have affected my thinking today
Caroline I will most definitely go topless!!!
April 20, 2009 at 11:11 PM
Gary, there came a time people started to deny voting for Bush. people do have their come to jesus moments.
April 20, 2009 at 11:11 PM
Fuzzy,
I am a liberal. I support LGBT rights, ERA, choice (for other women, not for me personally), and Hillary. I also support Israel (by the way, tomorrow is the Day of Remembrance for the victims of the Holocaust: and on this vigil, of all days, the UN chose Ahmedinejad to be their guest of honor at the conference on race: I will never forgive that). The only thing I don’t support in the libs agenda is socialized medicine. That’s because I know how lethal it can be in the hands of a corrupt Gov. In my Country, Italy, it worked for the first 10 years, maybe. Now, it works only for the rich (sounds familiar?). In the poor south,where I am from, patients are on waiting lists for years for routine procedures and when admitted to the hospital they have to provide sheets and pillowcases to sleep in. But I do want pols, of any stripe,to find a way to cover every American. Obots, for me are all those people Dems, Rep. or Ind. who refused to listen to life long libs and would not accept any criticism of their chosen one. They refused to investigate or research anything concerning him and simply accepted what the Party was putting in front of them. I am very bitter about this. And I was hoping PUMAS were different, that they would work on what united us with the Rep. who joined us in the fight, and find a new way forward.Instead, I see people stuck on labels. My mistake, no doubt.
April 20, 2009 at 11:11 PM
Edge, I love me some Guerilla Gardening. I loved your pictures of your community garden how is the garden going?
April 20, 2009 at 11:12 PM
angie, I am of a similar philosophy. Anyone who participated in the fraud that is obama will not get my vote ever. Unless they apologize
April 20, 2009 at 11:13 PM
gary — exactly — the majority of people voted for who Oprah told them to vote for — how pathetic is that?
April 20, 2009 at 11:13 PM
Bella, if Hillary was in charge of planning universal health care, would you consider it?
April 20, 2009 at 11:15 PM
gary — apoligize?!?!?! They better start crawling from here to China. LOL
PS — I threw away my Melissa Ethridge cds back during the “Warren isn’t so bad” days. No movie with Scarlett Johannsen will ever get my money again. I’m thisclose of boycotting Hollywood altogether.
April 20, 2009 at 11:20 PM
angie, melissa ethridge is really a nasty person. You know she got with her first wife by cheating with her while she was still married. then after they were together for like 10 years and had several children, she left her for a younger woman. kinda like your typical man… lol. She has very little character and the way she acted starting with the gay debate up through the warren fiasco is not surprising in the least.
April 20, 2009 at 11:23 PM
the real heartbreak for me was rufus wainwright. mawm and I saw him a year ago february on valentines day at radio city in NY, soon after he became a raging obot. I can’t give up his music though…I just totally dissociate… You know, at that concert we were actually sitting right beside Susan Sarandon…now if I knew then what I know now about that one, I would have given her an earful.
April 20, 2009 at 11:24 PM
<i<Most people who voted Democratic just wanted Bush and his party the hell out of there.
I’ve come to disagree with this sort of statement. In truth, a hell of a lot of people simply voted a la Simon Cowell, as if Obama were an entrant in a People magazine contest. They voted for a celebrity – not a candidate. The issues don’t interest them and never have and probably never will. But cute dogs and daughters and garden photo ops and shiny (literally) wardrobes and bare chested romps on the beach and toned arms and politically meaningless bells and whistles do interest them. And those are going to be the hardest votes to shake, unless Obama loses a significant amount of his A-list lustre before 2012.
April 20, 2009 at 11:31 PM
I don’t know, Gary. She would have planned it the right way, but who would execute the plan? And what would happen 10 years down the road? I remember we were all happy, at first. Then, corruption set in and everything became a huge mess: nurses on night shift need their rest, so if you have a relative that needs it, you have to hire someone to spend the night. Meds are no longer free:my relatives pay handsomely for their meds; and if you pay a doctor you can get medical attention as an “emergency” patient even if you only need a set of tests.When my husband (American) and I met and married we lived in Italy for a while and I and our 2 children were entitled to SM: we never used it and prefered the Navy Hospital instead. My relatives who visited me after I had my children couldn’t believe that the nurse would come every day in my room and give me a back-massage to relieve the bed pain. Or that she would come and offer them refreshments while they were visiting. They still talk about it…30 years later.
April 20, 2009 at 11:31 PM
Bella: PUMAs are different and I can tell you why. This blog alone represents an assortment of people who come from diverse backgrounds, communities, age, color, careers, sex. They have been together, more or less, for over a year. The original drawing card was Hillary followed equally by a distaste for both the DNC and their hand picked candidate.
We basically loathe both parties in equal measure. By both parties we are referring to the current leadership in both, not individual voters like you and me. We all recognize that neither party serves us well and we all seem to come together in some form of agreement that whatever candidate is “chosen” to lead you can almost bet the last nickel that they are in the pocket of corporations and special interests. We can each sit back and pour over the “follies” committed by both sides such as sexual infidelity and tax evasion and be assured that each side has had a stake in creating those headlines. We basically agree that most of those morons currently residing in congressional seats need to go.
So, yes, we do share a common ground in our distrust for whoever grabs the mic these days and spits out the nonsense emanating from the spokesperson of the day. We completely distrust what passes for journalism. We loathe Wall Street and the genius bankers who have foisted this mess upon us. Where we may have divisions more than likely will rest with social issues like Faith Based Initiatives, a woman’s right to choose, gay rights which we translate to human rights overall. Common ground must be found if we are to see our way out of this cycle of patronage and corporate policies which aid the few while spitting at the rest of us.
So please reconsider. Both parties are to blame. This is what creates the cohesion. A PUMA has reserved the right to call out both sides and kick the litter out of the way when we see it. You won’t find much sympathy for Democrats who behave this way on this blog. Yet we reserve the right to be as active in our comments against Repubs as well. When we see we are being manipulated and a platter of bullsh*t is being served up it matters not who is serving that day. They all get it.
I hope this helps and you consider staying. All voices have a right to be heard.
April 20, 2009 at 11:36 PM
Kat5, that is a fair point and one I agree with. The media has played an important role in getting us to this point.
April 20, 2009 at 11:45 PM
gary, yes. But I want my own limo, a new wardrobe, and vintage bottled wine.
April 20, 2009 at 11:46 PM
Bella, I think its worth it to try to make a better system, not just give up because of bad experiences in the past. One thing I’ve always believed is the universal right to health care. it shouldn’t be a privilege of those who can afford it. Especially for children.
April 20, 2009 at 11:46 PM
Pat, I would just like to add that another large difference is social safety net, taxes and governments role. Sometimes these issues create the illusion that we are on the same page ideologically, when we are not.
For instance, when left leaners and right leaners say they want less taxes, they mean two completely different things. but the statement itself, “we want less taxes”, is true.
April 20, 2009 at 11:46 PM
PS, Pat, did you see my earlier post with the pics of the marathon?
April 20, 2009 at 11:47 PM
Pat, would you consider cab fare, a $20 gift card to target, and bottle of bud light?
April 20, 2009 at 11:50 PM
taggles: Agreed. A PUMA is somewhere in the middle of these two factions and if we can call out the current Democratic leadership for falsely acting on our behalf (excuse me while I choke) then the Repubs who wish to align must admit that the Bush administration has done harm as well. I am not really interested in apologies being offered for FISA, Iraq, depleting the Treasury, and torture. Just can’t do it.
April 20, 2009 at 11:50 PM
gary: sold! And a box of Raisinettes ought to seal the deal. I am still loving me my Raisinettes.
April 20, 2009 at 11:52 PM
taggles: I did see the pics. My daughter in law went the distance but it took about 7 hours.
April 20, 2009 at 11:53 PM
it’s a deal pat! I’m out of here guys, night! Thanks for the post taggles….you guys do a really great job of getting the conversation going. See ya in the morning!
April 20, 2009 at 11:54 PM
Thank you, Pat. I believed that too. But I don’t see many looking for common ground, here or elsewhere in the PUMA blogosphere. Just the opposite.
I have stayed on out of courtesy for those who commented on my comments, but I’ll be on my way searching…searching…lol
Good luck all and thanks for the hospitality!
April 20, 2009 at 11:57 PM
Good luck to you Bella, I’m sure we’ll see you around somewhere. Take care.
April 20, 2009 at 11:59 PM
Good luck in your quest, Bella. It can be frustrating to connect with like minded people but please come back occasionally. You never know what conversations will be ongoing and it might be the night taggles and I are arm wrestling over the patriarchy!
April 20, 2009 at 11:59 PM
So not every dem that voted for That One is an Obot. Accepted.
However, I STILL want them to suffer for a while before extending any kind of olive branch to them. They should have known better.
April 21, 2009 at 12:02 AM
Nope, were aren’t going to extend them anything torchwood, we are going to sit and wait for them to come home.
April 21, 2009 at 12:02 AM
but we won’t be idly sitting! there’s plenty to do that’s for sure!
April 21, 2009 at 12:04 AM
Except for those rabid Obots who infected blogsites with their obscenities and inanities, I came to the conclusion that most people are not like us. By that I mean, those who follow these pols and campaigns from the beginning so that by the time Obama had edged out Hillary most felt that had no choice but to back the Democratic candidate due to the Bush backlash.
Many I know who did vote Obama are not true Obots but just resigned about 8 years of the worst presidency on record so far and who truly yearned for change. What they got was another story. Many of them were even unaware of the May 31s debacle and did not get actively involved until sometime in October. So although we can criticize the entire voting bloc that brought us Obama, they were not true Obots as we had lived with for months prior.
April 21, 2009 at 12:18 AM
although torchwood, it will be a test sometimes. and awfully hard to not say, I told ya so!
April 21, 2009 at 12:20 AM
And media propoganda, Kat5, 24/7.
Really good post, taggles. Thanks for writing this.
To clarify, I’m happy to have Republicans join us. What I don’t like is those who assume that we don’t like Obama for the same reason most Repubs don’t, and try to convince us of their conservative philosophy. Everyone has every right to their beliefs, but this blog states its bias right at the top. I come here because that’s mine, too, instead of to any of thousands of other blogs.
April 21, 2009 at 12:25 AM
speaktruth; I love the way you expressed that! I have no interest in playing footsie with Repub leanings simply because I loathe Obama. I am not interested in their talking points or links to red state sites. As much as I loathe Hannity and Beck, I reserve the same disdain for KO and Maddow. As soon as the public begins to understand that these people are nothing but partisan shills with only an agenda for their side in mind, then we will benefit greatly.
I prefer to remain independent and have no desire to be co-opted by the right wing owing to my displeasure with the Democratic Party. But that is just me speaking for myself.
April 21, 2009 at 12:39 AM
Thanks, Pat.
My position is a little different.
Since we have only two viable parties, and I won’t drop out, and I totally disagree with the Republican policies, and I’m still a liberal, FDR Dem and I don’t want to sacrifice the good in search of the perfect, I’m still a Democrat. One who didn’t vote for Obama, but for a third party. But for every other Dem. And one who still sees our only hope at this point in reforming Dem Party.
With the possible exception of a viable Women’s Party as a third party.
With Hillary as the leader. Not too likely, though. Aside from that, third parties don’t work in our system. I would love to see a real parliamentary system, though. With lots of parties represented, elections when voters want to throw the bums out.
Off to bed to dream about my perfect world.
April 21, 2009 at 12:42 AM
The 18 mill or so that voted for Obama in the primaries are the hard core Obots. There were 69 mill who voted for Obama in the General. So among those additional 51 mill, as someone said upthread, there were more hard core obots who chose to disagree or reject the truth about Obama, others who chose to ignore it, still others who remained oblivious to the impact on them of the campaign propaganda and media barrage. Still 51 million is a large number, and the anti two (stolen) term Bush sentiment was very strong and made it easy to pull the Dem Party lever. Point is, there are a ton of people among that 51 million and also among the total 60 million who voted McPalin who might be, 1) turn away from Obama during the next 3 years, and 2) who would potentially be attracted to PUMA’s core principles. As Madamab said well up top, for anyone willing to respect PUMAs and what they stands for, the invitation is out there. The party affiliations ought to be a secondary consideration.
April 21, 2009 at 1:03 AM
Taggles, I think bringing in Dems that have stopped drinking the koo-aid is a good idea, but living in the Bay Area, the Dems that voted for BO are still proud obots. They have not budged an inch as yet, they still have Hope that their messiah will fix all their problems and pave the way to the American Dream for them.
If I ever see one waver, I will jump at the chance. When the kool-aid starts wearing off, they will fall in huge numbers.
By leaving my Hillary sticker on my car, I end up talking to many people that never heard about PUMAs and try to pull them in.
April 21, 2009 at 2:04 AM
Off topic but interesting article at Rasmussen’s about the tea parties:
April 21, 2009 at 4:16 AM
Somewhere up above angie wrote: “win by 52% — and contrary to the Obot talking points, that ain’t a landslide, not by a long shot.”
Right on. Remember Pennsylvannia? (At least I think it was Pennsylvannia.) On election night Hillary won by 10% and the MSM grudgingly said she won by a landslide. The next day the number was downgraded to something like 9.4% and every pundit started crawling backwards that 9.4 is not a landslide. No, Hillary didn’t win by a landslide! She just barely squeezed through! So, by their own estimation a landslide is 10 points. And Obama did not win the election by 10 points. Hence, no landslide.
April 21, 2009 at 4:29 AM
Quite frankly, I was shut down by “friends” and family members who would not even hear that Obama was a fraud… and that Hillary was a better choice.
When I moved to supporting MacPalin, I was harrassed to the point where I often chose to lie about who I was voting for. (I told them Nader, which they also ridiculed.)
At this point I will not discuss politics with the Leftie Dems I used to hang with. Even the most educated and rational of them went gaga over Obama… and I just can’t forgive them. So, I have a policy. No political discussion at all. My sister who switched to Mac as well feels the same.
I would dearly appreciate it if some of you would help open the eyes of the Obot masses, so I can once again hold intelligent conversations with my friends. But I am not holding my breath waiting. Really I’m not. From now on my vote is “private” and I will never tell them who I vote for again.
SYD
April 21, 2009 at 5:29 AM
More of my thoughts on this subject:
http://syd4.blogspot.com/2009/04/reaching-out-to-former-o-bots-are-you.html
April 21, 2009 at 6:50 AM
Off topic but good news for gay marriage in NY – and entertainment too
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/04/21/gay-marriage-in-ny-gets-possible-and-fun/
April 21, 2009 at 9:16 AM
Stray Yellar, I can’t and won’t waste my breath on obots.
However, as my friends and family, who are Democrats and Independents and just happened to vote for Obama, become more and more unhappy with him I’ll offer the olive branch.
Obots, no way! Not even close to that, the pain is too deep.
April 21, 2009 at 9:34 AM
[...] Widdershins has a great post about who is NOT a B0bot and how this should influence our attitude. I pretty much agree that we need to look for a common ground rather than needless “I told [...]
April 21, 2009 at 11:17 AM
The thing is, I’m not reaching out to any Obot. If they want to talk to me – let’s do it. But I ain’t chasing anyone!
April 21, 2009 at 11:22 AM
angienc2
PS — I threw away my Melissa Ethridge cds back during the “Warren isn’t so bad” days.
…
Did you see the remaking of Warren? The new video, despite the old one of him all out for prop 8…these folks really think we will believe anything.
I want Universal Health Care, Civil Rights for EVERYONE (gays and women too), a New Voting Rights Act (so no more DNC counting techniques), and a respect for Human Rights and Civil Liberties.
If anyone supports these things, I will give them my support, but I am not a Church of Oprah follower…as she showed her ‘feMANist’ credentials when she didn’t support the best candidate that just happened to be a WOMAN: Hillary R. Clinton.
April 21, 2009 at 1:56 PM
taggles,
I am a left-leaning independent “old PUMA” who supported Hillary, and then became a PUMA and voted for Ralph Nader in the GE. I never entertained the idea of voting Republican at all. I do not now, nor will I ever, support the Republican Party platform. But I do not feel I have all that much in common with Obots, ideologically or otherwise. And I feel that all those who pulled that lever for Obama — regardless of whether they were enthusiastic, well-informed, jaded, or whatever — are responsible for the damage that he and his supporters caused to Hillary and her supporters. The Obama voters did not have to be on his bandwagon from the beginning in order for them to be culpable Obots. If they pulled that lever for Obama, they did so willingly and without a gun pointed at their heads. If they did not personally contribute in the bashing of Hillary and her supporters, at the very least they did nothing to stop it and they are therefore “enablers” and “fellow-traveler” of the bashers.
Like many Hillaryites, I was subject to verbal abuse, insults, harassment, condescension, and patronizing attitudes for having the nerve to oppose Obama. I do not now feel inclined to welcome any of these Obama supporters to the PUMA cause. By definition, PUMAs can never be Obots, and vice versa. If you voted for Obama, you are not a PUMA, disillusioned and contrite though you may be. I have no desire to try to convert these individuals to my side of the debate.
Please, let there be a special place in hell reserved for those who supported Hillary in the primaries and then turned tail and voted for her abuser. By their actions, they empowered the least qualified, least experienced major presidential candidate in history to gain the White House over a dynamic and brilliant woman who actually received more votes than her opponent did in the primaries. How could they? I have no interest in talking to these people. I don’t care how “gut-wrenching” was their decision to vote for him, and how they wish they didn’t have to. They DIDN’T HAVE TO. They could have voted for Nader or the Greens.
I will remain disgusted with Obots forever. I don’t care whether they come around to seeing it my way or not. They are a waste of my PUMA time. We should be talking to the Naderites and the Greens — not the Obots. Forget them. They dug their own hole, now let them crawl out without our help.
April 21, 2009 at 2:52 PM
NYCGirl – We are not talking about Obots. We are talking about Obama voters who are NOT Obots.
April 21, 2009 at 3:01 PM
madamab,
I don’t make a distinction between “Obot” and “Obama voter”, which is why I said this:
“The Obama voters did not have to be on his bandwagon from the beginning in order for them to be culpable Obots. If they pulled that lever for Obama, they did so willingly and without a gun pointed at their heads. If they did not personally contribute in the bashing of Hillary and her supporters, at the very least they did nothing to stop it and they are therefore “enablers” and “fellow-traveler” of the bashers.”
To me, if you supported Obama by voting for him, then you are responsible for validating what he and his supporters did, and therefore you are an Obot. JMO.
April 21, 2009 at 3:30 PM
Sometimes my mind says one thing, while my heart and gut say something else. I almost always end up following heart and gut.
I understand why Hillary supporters would vote Obama after eight disastrous years under Bush. I understand they would be afraid of a continuation under McCain. I understand with my mind, though I disagree.
I realized months earlier that I just Couldn’t press that lever for McCain, even as a “protest” vote. What about the “protest” against Bush? It would have been like saying I approved of Bush. (I would have voted Palin, though.)
I Wouldn’t vote Obama so I voted Nader – went back and forth Green – Nader.
Finally chose Nader because I like his policies. But still have not forgiven him for bringing us Bush when we could have had Gore, and a very very different world today. But I guess I hate him the least, and it was least distasteful protest vote.
So, though I understand all the Obama voters, I have not spoken to or seen my two best friends in six months, people I ate dinner with, once a week, for years. They were Clinton supporters who made the switch pretty easily. There was no blowup, no fight. We just all stopped calling each other. Though I miss them I haven’t been able to pick up the phone to call. I guess they feel the same. It’s all very weird – and painful.
April 21, 2009 at 3:44 PM
speaktruth,
Thanks for your comment. As a longtime independent voter who supported Nader in this last election, of course I heard the “spoiler” epithet over and over. I am past talking about 2000, and I believe sincerely that we need more than two parties in this country. Independent candidates should not be seen as “spoilers”, IMO, but that’s another interesting discussion we could have at another time on another thread.
I was insulted majorly by two longtime friends who are Obama supporters who called me “ignorant” for not supporting their chosen candidate. I have decided not to let something as stupid as Barack Obama come between our friendship, and I hope they feel the same. But really, how insane is all of this? I’m sorry, but I just don’t see how this man has brought this country together. The racial and political divisions are deeper now than I have ever seen them in my life, and I have to hold him and his supporters accountable for that.
I do see where taggles was going with her original post, but that angle just won’t be part of my personal PUMA tactics. JMO, like I said. Thanks for the discussion anyway, Widdershins.
April 21, 2009 at 9:23 PM
ACK! You have got to hate those “Possibly Related Automatically Generated Links” at the end of posts in Word Press. I noticed one called “Declawed Pumas” at the end of your piece.
Check out this work of art.
http://scotterb.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/de-clawed-pumas/
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April 20, 2009 at 6:08 PM
Loving, loving, LOVING this post. You go girl!
Almost every single one of my friends voted for Obama. Not one of them went on line and bullied people. Most were, in fact, Hillary supporters who just felt any Democrat HAD to be better than any Republican. As I am talking to them now, I am seeing the potential for awakening to PUMA.
Are we really supposed to pretend that our friends are now worthless because they cast uninformed votes? That we shouldn’t reach out to our own families, even?
It’s ludicrous to say things like that.
It’s also ludicrous to discount someone as a PUMA just because they voted for a third party or stayed home.
In fact, if people agree with our principles, I don’t care what they call themselves. Right, left, independent, center, who cares?
But respect must be given before it is extended.
Some people seem to be forgetting that.