Open Thread: Caption This Photo!
Posted by madamab on July 5, 2009
Tell Me What's On My Mind!
Awwwww, Bawack wooks vewy vewy angwy. What is our Dear Leader and Deciderer thinking?
Discuss! This is an open thread.
The Widdershins
Left-leaning unconventional wisdom.
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madamab said
My caption: “Who will rid me of this troublesome reporter?!”
(Helen Thomas)
la-t-da said
Shit, Hillary’s ratings are way higher than mine!
madamab said
Melissa Etheridge just hung up on me!
Pat Johnson said
“I asked for front row tickets to the Michael Jackson memorial and all I got was a broken promise!”
DYB said
There are no crowds greeting me in Moscow!
madamab said
Oh, Pat, you are so bad…:-)
madamab said
Aravosis stopped following me on Twitter!
helenk said
Damn she is going to expect me to say ” I am the man that brought meechelle to Moscow” and she is going to wear those ugly clothes.
WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS
PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE
angiencpets said
Just FYI (I posted this on last thread):
The FBI issued a statement yesterday that there is no investigation of Palin at all. It seems the rumor of a criminal investigation was started by an Alaskan blogger named Moore. Palin’s attorney has threatened legal action on Moore, the msm or any other bloggers that attempt to perpetuate that smear. I think it would be better for this blog if we dropped the speculation of “some scandal” coming out re: Palin because it is treading on dangerous territory.
The lies abounding about Palin are actually pretty disturbing to me because of their sheer vitriol. The women was not less “obscure” “experienced” or “prepared” than Obama. The only difference between the two of them is (1) she’s a woman and (2) she went to public school. The fact that she is “pro-life” is no excuse — I don’t see the same kind of viciousness against Gov. Tim Kaine, for example.
Ok, back to work for me.
miss becky said
who ever you are i hate you, and whatever it is, i don’t care. me. that’s all i care about. me. get it?
la-t-da said
In that same light, angie, does that mean things said in captioning this pic can be taken out of context? And, of course, I think anyone could rightfully sue on saying she is under criminal investigation. I do wish Hillary had had more money or had not had to waste money to fight lies. Though she did spend a butt load on that Dick Morris bash “Hillary the Movie.”
madamab said
I agree, Angie, with every word you said. And from a legal perspective, it’s best not to open a can of worms by giving credence to a lie.
LOL, Miss Becky – you’ve got Obama’s number!
la-t-da said
I must have missed it. Did someone say on the previous thread…”some scandal”?
Pat Johnson said
I have a question that never seems to get fully answered but it is this:
Sarah Palin, regardless of how she is presented by women who have fallen under her spell, is in all reality a totally Right Wing spokeswoman. Her position on many policies, including reproductive rights, stem cell research, and creationism are known. She has been touted as a “fighter”, yet under the pressure of some scurrilous press coverage toward her family, which admittedly went way over the line of decency, she has basically “stood down” from the fight.
Equating her with Hillary Clinton, who fought the good fight for years and who was accused of murder, lesbianism, fraud, lying, and racism, is absolutely ridiculous. Hillary stood her ground and hardly ever responded publicly to the vitriol leveled against her yet Sarah is being applauded by women for “doing the right thing”. Is this a message women wish to confer on their daughters?
Shielding your children from the slings and arrows that the Palin kids were under is worthy of mention. But it seems to me that she has done a disservice to women by allowing the press to drive her away since there is every reason to believe that once entering the political fray the expectation is always there. Not fair perhaps, but there just the same.
I grant that the family has been slimed. But allowing her positions on issues to take a back seat in her defense, and overlooking some fairly reasonable questions concerning her actions, is sticking one’s head in the sand.
If her resignation, or whatever that was on Friday, was to return to the issues of her family, I can understand that to some extent.
But if her resignation, or whatever that was on Friday, is nothing more than another opportunity to enhance herself at the expense of the state that elected her to office, and who rightfully expected her to serve out her term to the end, she will have done nothing more than to display the sheer egotism and non commitment that has been labeled on Obama, a man none of us have ever shied from criticizing for the same behavior.
There is nothing “courageous” in that decision, as far as I can see, but another attempt by someone plucked out of nowhere who got a taste of the national spotlight and could not let go. It might also be a consideration that not everything related in that Vanity Fair article was untrue.
We will just have to wait and see. But after watching and reading that rambling resignation statement from whatever that was on Friday, I have no clear account of what it means. But “courage” and “warrior” should no longer be attributed to Sarah Palin. Those words remain in the ownership of Hillary Clinton who taught us what they meant by going the distance both in her commitment and service. No comparison whatsoever.
NYSmike said
Those blasted BLT people, don’t they want me around for a second term!!? Speaking of which, hey Joe, wanna grab a BLT at Subways?
la-t-da said
I know many people are going to have and have many different opinions about Sarah Palin. I think it is great that we are all so conscientiousness of defending any women against sexism, but sometimes, well many times, some things said about Michelle Obama on many blogs throughout the campaign has bothered me as well…and often I did not speak up (sometimes though) knowing I would rock the boat.
Do we need to call each other out, in an appropriate manner (as you did, angie)? I think so. But it is sometimes gonna get sticky. I think we are all used to the “sticky” throughout our blogging time, and I do agree with not sounding like a “sounding board”.
So with that said: 1) I am probably opening up a can of worms, 2) your reference to Michelle’s clothes kinda bugged me when I read it, Helen, and 3) and most importantly, in my opinion, there is something about Palin’s resignation and the conversations that are happening and going to happen in PUMA that I think are actually going to end up being very productive in the quest to see “if” pro-life and pro-abortion women can come together.
la-t-da said
LOL, NY. That’s funny playing off the GBLT acronym.
madamab said
Pat, you have some good points, but you constantly misrepresent Palin’s positions as being extreme right wing. She simply is not. She does not govern that way and you absolutely refuse to acknowledge that. It’s very frustrating. On what planet would an extreme rightwing person appoint a pro-choice justice to the Alaskan Supreme Court?! Have Democrats in her Cabinet? Have a 90% approval rating? She has never attempted to push her beliefs onto Alaskan citizens by legislating morality. Mike Huckabee, OTOH, said the Constitution itself should be changed to reflect “God’s Law.” Do you really not see the difference?
I do agree that Palin has not earned comparisons to Hillary.Clinton. Not even close. But where is all the hostility and vitriol coming from? No one is under her spell here, and the way you are attacking her is truly unfair.
BTW, if she ran for President at this point, I would not vote for her. She is not ready for that office.
Pat Johnson said
My hope is that as long as she remains in the public arena that we do not end up in the same mindset of the Obots who brooked no dissension or discussion against him. There are those who support, and I am guessing there are a few like me, who do not. If open and civil dialogue about Palin leads in the same direction than we have not advanced the discourse.
There must be a clear line drawn between her positions and the personal attacks emanating from the media. One is defensible, the other not.
And the criticism of Palin is not a direct attack against the person supporting her. It is simply another point of view.
indigogrrl said
If she ran for president right now and it was vs. Jackass Obama, I’d sure as hell vote for her. I am committed to him not getting a second term so that the democratic party can rebuild itself with people who have core democratic beliefs….. and the only way for that to happen is for him to lose and his tactics and DINO policies repudiated. Big time.
la-t-da said
I considered voting for McCain as a protest vote…until Gov. Palin said the word “tolerate” not once but three times during the VP debate.
indigogrrl said
so latda ~ is it better that he won then?
and you’ll be ok with his being validated by having a second term?
gawd knows what havoc he can wreak in 8 years.
indigogrrl said
If the Obacrat party is not stopped, the real Democratic party cannot grow back.
If the Obacrat party wins again in 2012, imagine what the Democratic party will look like in 2016. Get real ~ under normal circumstances NONE of us would vote Republican… but we are all going to have to face facts that there will only be 2 choices next time. Him or Them.
la-t-da said
I know that word. It is similar to “hate the sin, love the sinner”. I watched the word “tolerate” slowly evolve from “going to hell” in the same kind of church she attended and attends.
The evolution to “tolerate” was good, but not good enough because it smacks of PC. I don’t have time for politicians sitting around for their learning curves. Of course, Obama is equally included in that “learning curve”.
la-t-da said
I am not even going to answer those question, indigo.
indigogrrl said
latda ~ one of her closest friends is a lesbian, and she has actually signed legislation that was helpful to LGBTs….
whereas he has done nothing but use what ever group he could.
He is insidious, and he should not be re-elected. I’d rather take my chances with a person who seems to respect the rule of law and seems honest. He has done neither.
taggles said
Sarah Palin had no choice in appointing a pro choice justice to the alaskan supreme court. The Alaska constitution requires a board of lawyers sends her two choices. Both of her choices were pro choice nominees and the one she did not pick was more of an environmentalist.
So, that meme does not wash with me.
Sarah Palin is anti abortion except for when the life of the mother is threatened. Fact.
Sarah Palin is anti gay marriage. Fact.
She says it, she means it, I don’t think anyone should fool themselves. All socially conservative republicans LOVE her. I don’t understand the excuses people make for her on this front. I felt this way during the primaries and I still feel the same way to this day.
Last week, Sarah Palin and her Lt. Governor endorsed a referendum to overturn a AK SCOTUS decision based on privacy and abortion. She was appalled when the decision came down a year or two ago, regarding parental consent and abortion.
la-t-da said
I have heard all those arguments, indigo. I sure do hope her friend confronted her for using the words tolerate or tolerating or tolerated. Gays are being “tolerated” right now by the Obo’s for fighting Obama against the status quo.
I am not willing go in and fight with a Republican, saving up all that energy, to do it again with someone that I already knows tolerates gays. That energy is now, no matter who is in that office right now.
taggles said
Sarah Palin thinks roe v. wade was a bad decision and that it interferes with states rights. Yeah, I know we aren’t suppose to care about that issue any more, but fuck it, I DO.
indigogrrl said
Again ~ if he wins, we have no way of “reclaiming” the Democratic party.
I will NOT reward their bad behavior with my vote.
I will vote against him, or not vote at all.
As it stands he is worse now than she would ever be.
indigogrrl said
“I will vote against him, or not vote at all. ”
I take that back.
I will vote against him. I would rather have an honest opponent, than a deceiving backstabber saying one thing and doing another.
la-t-da said
Welcome home, taggles, btw. Oops, we should have stuck to the “caption the pic thread”. LOL
taggles said
thanks la-t-da. Loved your post btw! Thanks so much for joining us!
I don’t care how anyone votes against barack. I will, however, make my opinion known about Sarah Palin, just as I do Barack Obama.
There is no reason to make excuses for fair argument and concern regarding a politician. It is not a sexist attack to question her political beliefs.
She should be defended by us from the asshole sexists in BOTH parties, her party is just as bad, and the media.
That is a distinct difference in my opinion. Defending vs. supporting.
Fredster said
My caption: Whaddaya mean I can’t have a cig? I’m f@ckin’ POTUS by God!!
taggles said
Caption
I’m pissed at Sarah for taking a piece of my pie. She can get people to believe she is on their side even when she, just like me, is plainly telling them to go fuck themselves.
la-t-da said
I think he is saying the “sh*t” word at the beginning:
“Shit, I bet people are sitting around on blogs captioning my picture.”
fuzzybeargville said
hey all my caption:
“Shit Rahm put Visine in My arugala-blast smoothie again…where the f*ck is the bathroom?”
Pat Johnson said
caption:
“Stop asking me questions on e-mail.”
Fredster said
If you believe the Nat’l Enquirer, MO is hitting the bottle since they are in the W.H.
Could be “Shit, drunk again!”
fuzzybeargville said
La-t-dah- he could also be saying Chicklets! (its a defensive move used in 11 dimentional chess on His-anus)
madamab said
Taggles – she has not done one thing to limit the women of
Alaska’s access to abortion or contraception. Further, she said that if it was up to her, she would not overturn Roe v. Wade.
FACT.
I do not support her or wabt her to be President, but there is a difference between what she believes personally and what she does to force those beliefs on others. Right now, in her actions she is to the left of Obama on abortion and contraception and gay rights.
I am still hopeful that we will have a third choice in 2012, whose initials are HRC! Besides which, the Repub Party will never allow her to run for Pres.
fuzzybeargville said
Or MO could be out shopping with Donna Brazille with the american express card
fuzzybeargville said
Hey Madamab Sorry I brought up Sarah…I want Hillary for President of the Reformed Democratic Party in 2012…the Party Slogan:
“Reformed and Back to our Roots”
fuzzybeargville said
second solgan:
Donna Brazile not welcome-nor Nancy Pelosi-nor Howie Dean-or David Axelfraud….the list goes on!
taggles said
She was governor for 18 months. she campaigned on her personal beliefs and received votes for them.
Plus, just last week she supported a referendum to overturn an AK supreme court ruling on that said parental consent was an invasion of privacy.
So she is true to her words that abortion is a states right issue and will have a referendum to put it her personal beliefs into the AK Constitution.
Pat Johnson said
Some @sshole on the next street just set the bushes in front of his house on fire by throwing firecrackers close to the house. There must be 6 firetrucks out there and two police cars along with a tv crew. Idiots!!!
fuzzybeargville said
I forgot to mention adding visine to a drink containing alcohol like the vodka in Pampers Arugula blast smoothie causes instant liquid sh*ts. Its an old bartender trick to get rid of annoying drunnk customers I really works.
Pat Johnson said
I am making a gin tonic for myself.
fuzzybeargville said
Pat that little trick will cost the city you live in $ 6,000.00 I hope they bill him for it…
fuzzybeargville said
Pat I beg you hold the Visine….
fuzzybeargville said
Hey Taggles how are you tonight?
Pat Johnson said
He is the son of a judge. A typical spoiled brat. Guaranteed nothing will happen to him. A royal pain in the ass!
taggles said
Barack Obama told us who he was. I think we should believe Sarah when she tells us who she is.
I am not interested in the status quo for womens rights by putting a woman in charge who believes as she does on so many important issues. She will not advance our cause, except that we may have elected a woman and broken the glass ceiling.
I believe more women, republican and democratic should be in the congress and senate. But the solution is not voting for every single woman no matter what(not saying you believe that, but I have read that as the end all be all for our struggle, we will not have a majority the divides are too wide). The solution is forcing the parties to support as many females as they do males for office. Then let the chips fall where they may.
taggles said
I’m doing good Fuzzy! How are you? I’m a widdle cranky, though! LOL
But it’s just been a long, exhausting weekend.
fuzzybeargville said
the city could still bill him for the cost of the response we bill customers for hitting our uutility poles when they have car accidents…we even billed a city commissioner for hitting a pole when he hit it while drunk driving. Oh he was a Fundie Republican christian (small c)LOL.
fuzzybeargville said
I want Hillary in charge….I want Obama back in chicago and Nancy Pelosi crushing grapes at her Marin County vineyard in ner bare feet
fuzzybeargville said
Taggles thats OK I was cranky too!
Pat Johnson said
I guess I am just gobsmacked by all the weeping and wailing going on over her resignation from women from the liberal camp. I can separate the unwarranted attacks on her personal life but, I truly do not understand the insistence of not being able to question or criticize her for her political stance.
They are clearly two separate issues. I have reason to think, based on her religous beliefs, that she would not be advancing women’s rights and would more than likely uphold the conscience rule based on some of her statements.
Obama is an idiot in that he is not what was supposed but the signals, for me at least, is that she would be no different in that regard.
taggles said
She was just at the Susan B. Anthony museum in Seneca Falls, where she talked about how she is fighting for womens rights, and that includes our sisters in the womb. Something very close to that.
It made me want to vomit.
taggles said
I have no opinion on her resignation. I could care less.
fuzzybeargville said
Well I wish a smart democrat woman would run for Senate this time around in florida for the seat Martinez is leaving open….Charlie Crist (aka Closetcase) is running on the “R” side
madamab said
Taggles, we don’t disagree at all on the need for more women in politics. I do think we need to pressure the political parties to put more women forward, and I hope we can get enough people together to force them to do so.
I desperately want a woman President, but the real social change when it comes to women comes from the legislature. If the wrong woman gets elected President and does not have the support of the legislature, she will go down in flames and ruin things for the next woman, just as Obama has ruined things for the next AA to run for President.
Caption: Why won’t Hillary return my calls? I need to know what to say about North Korea!
fuzzybeargville said
crap in moderation please release me think it was my charlie crist comment about him standing in his clothing wardrobe…Sniker
fuzzybeargville said
madamab please release me….snicker snicker…
fuzzybeargville said
New caption
“Crap if Michelle looked like Beyonce then no one would have belived that Larry Sinclair thing and then I would be the man who accompanied Beyonce to Moscow…Sh*t wher is the toilet the visine is kicking in”
la-t-da said
I am making a gin tonic for myself.
That sounds so good, Pat. Off to the corner store… (Scary that we have one so close to me.)
We have a stupid motorist law here. It is actually entitled the “Stupid Motorist Law”. If people drive through the flowing washes during monsoon season they get a ticket. If they have to be pulled out, they get a big fine.
madamab said
Taggles – how did Billy do this weekend?
la-t-da said
I hope to goddess that some really smart real progressive female politician is reading all the blogs and discussions going on about Palin’s resignation and hypothetical run. Jump on in reproductive rights female politicians and get your ball caps in the ring.
taggles said
We did well. We made it into the play offs, but lost.
Billy and the entire team played really well.
They have another tournament starting this wednesday! After that off to FL the very soon!
taggles said
Caption
I’m fuckin pissed. Oh no I’m not. Yes I am. Nope. Yes. Nope. Yes. Nope……
la-t-da said
“gobsmacked” That is a great word. I have been gobsmacked for a very long time now that some liberal-leaning Hillary supporters have still been talking about Palin as a viable political option since the GE. Lot’s of energy lost in supporting the liberal women that are in our Congress right now. But…”They ended up endorsing Obama and not Hillary in the end.” Was Sarah Palin supporting Hillary to be the first women to break the glass ceiling? That has always gobsmackened me.
Anthony said
“Dammit, Michelle!! You’re wearing my navy pumps again??? How many times do I have to give you the number for The Transvestite Boutique before you start using it? Now, take ‘em off!!”
madamab said
Taggles – wow, how many tournaments does he have? I am sure he will win the next one!
LOL with your captions, Taggles and Anthony!
la-t-da said
Jesum, why are some of the captions dealing with Michelle? Isn’t that the whole point of defending vs. supporting. With the wealth of things that man could be saying why are there ones about his wife.
la-t-da said
I am missing something somewhere somehow about something about defending and supporting. I’m gonna take a break.
DYB said
Pat, no one says you can’t criticize Palin and her policies. But what madamab was saying, and I’ve been saying for a while, is that you completely misrepresent her record. She has not ruled as a right-wing conservative. You keep saying that she did, but can you provide any proof? In the statement she released via facebook about what her plans are she mentioned things she wants to deal with in her new role (whatever it is): energy independence, national security, fiscal responsibility. That’s it. Social issues (abortion, gay rights, etc.) were NOT included in the platform she outlined in that statement. Nothing in her record as mayor or governor shows that she has allowed her personal beliefs to clash with her job. Which is why comparisons to someone like Huckabee are simply false: Huckabee wants to change the Constitution to reflect God’s will. Palin has never said anything even remotely approaching that. People keep confusing her personal beliefs with what she has done while in power. She is not at the top of my list for any public office, but fair is fair.
DYB said
Ugh, that last statement should read SHE IS NOT AT THE TOP OF MY LIST. Why can’t we edit?
madamab said
Sorry, La-t-da. With all the snark flying around, sometimes we hit the wrong targets.
I have to say that I have no sympathy for Michelle at all. She is a woman who hates women and she continually treats Hillary like crap (“I love saying SECRETARY Clinton”). But I understand and respect your feelings.
Good night all I’ll be at the doctor’s tomorrow…sigh.
madamab said
DYB – I did it for you.
DYB said
Thanks madamab! Good night!
Pat Johnson said
DYB: I believe that taggles laid out some of her positions quite well.
“Sarah Palin is anti abortion except for when the life of the mother is threatened. Fact.
Sarah Palin is anti gay marriage. Fact.
She says it, she means it, I don’t think anyone should fool themselves. All socially conservative republicans LOVE her. I don’t understand the excuses people make for her on this front. I felt this way during the primaries and I still feel the same way to this day.
Last week, Sarah Palin and her Lt. Governor endorsed a referendum to overturn a AK SCOTUS decision based on privacy and abortion. She was appalled when the decision came down a year or two ago, regarding parental consent and abortion.”
Factor in her statements that gays need to be “tolerated” and she seals the political deal for me. Saying that I am distorting her positions is not accurate. I base my objection to her as well when she came out of the gate announcing her religious beliefs which work their way into her positions without doubt.
“Tolerating gays” is not championing equal rights. Starting from that position alone is enough evidence for me to suggest that she honors her faith more than equality.
My point is merely in how I see her. It should not be considered a personal slap at someone else’s belief. It is also confusing to me to find so much emotional support for someone whose views at diametrically opposed to women who consider themselves liberal.
Pat Johnson said
nite madamab!
DYB said
You’re not listening to me, Pat! No one is disputing what Palin believes. I’m disputing what she has done while in office. To me those are two very different things.
la-t-da said
Sorry, gals and guys, I got a little over-heated there on a personal front. Decided to go ahead and go to the corner store. I failed to follow through earlier with the gin. I settled on the Tecate that was on sale. We have limes on our trees and tonic doesn’t grow on trees.
MB, I hope you really try the netty pot. It has helped me a lot…when I do it. Best at the Docs.
Pat Johnson said
But you are not listening to me DYB, you are demanding that I defend my own personal opinion against a politician who I disagree with on most points.
She ran on a political ticket last year and try as I might I found her unprepared, lacking in key points, and holding positions that were in direct opposition to my own.
She is against stem cell research. She is in favor of teaching creationism in schools. She is opposed to abortion and is in support of state’s having the ability to overturn the decision. She “tolerates” gays. As a newly elected governor, she slashed the budget that shredded social programs, one of which was created to assist those with handicapped children. It wasn’t until she herself faced the same situation that she felt differently. And the state legislature was forced to go to court to restore those budgets cuts made because she had not studied the bill beforehand.
I watched all the primary debates before she entered the picture and she basically eschewed most of the talking points laid out by the Repub candidates whom I had rejected from the outset. I thought she would be different but it was soon clear to me that she was not. Her religious fervor troubled me.
I lost interest in her as she does not represent my beliefs in most issues. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with her gender, party, or anything beyond the fact that she, in my opinion, does not.
la-t-da said
“energy independence, national security, fiscal responsibility”
Her team can read the papers and see the gay community is pissed at a Democrat. They know there is a debate on about the conscious clause. They know sexism is alive and well. They know the debate between civil unions vs gay marriage. Being silent on this issues disturbs me too…besides her positions on energy independence and national security and fiscal responsibility.
I lost my other laptop (crashed) with all the bookmarks of my conflict with her on energy independence and energy but I know that I did not agree with many of the policies that she did sign as governor.
It is worth the dig about the contract signed with a Canadian oil company. It is worth the dig about the pipeline corridor between Alaska and Canada and Russia. It is worth the dig about her wanting to take the polar bear off the endangered species list. That keeps that pipeline hope alive.
Oil is about our national security. Wanting to pipe it in from Alaska to the lower 48 is well and fine by me. But all that oil and natural gas wasn’t going to come directly from Alaska. Things are left out of her public statements about the things she has already signed.
la-t-da said
Also on my last note. It is not really fine by me about the lower 48 meme in her campaigning or the “Drill, Baby, Drill”. That goes against most of my years spent as an environmental activist. The more and more we drill, the less we will drill, baby, drill for alternative sources to help balance out oil and alternatives. Hillary’s platform on “green collar jobs” is actually a huge drawl for me. “Natural Capitalism” It is a good book. It really could work as a new source of manufacturing.
Anthony said
“Jesum, why are some of the captions dealing with Michelle? Isn’t that the whole point of defending vs. supporting. With the wealth of things that man could be saying why are there ones about his wife.”
Sorry if I offended you with my caption.
Actually, it was really a slam at Barack, because it was his navy pumps that were being worn by someone else (in this case, his wife). And because I can’t really stand either one, I didn’t think it was out of line. Some may agree with me, but for those who don’t, please try to not take it personally or a remark aimed against women.
Not very comfortable walking on eggshells; so I will think twice before commenting in the future.
la-t-da said
Not very comfortable walking on eggshells; so I will think twice before commenting in the future.
I’m with you on that Anthony. I posted above, “sorry, gals and guys, I got a little over-heated there on a “personal’ front.”
Fredster said
I’m catching up and don’t know when the last post was so….
Anybody wanna play with Nancy?
http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/davesmith/pelosi.html
It’s like a silly putty face. Bend it and twist it any way you want!
EricaLeigh said
I don’t have a caption, I have a headache!
And I hope I’m not opening a can of worms here re: Palin and the parental notification issue, but that’s a complex issue that I think the pro-abortion folks have done an excellent job minimizing. One can be pro-choice, like I am, and in favor of parental notification–or at least willing to really look intensely at the topic.
As a pediatrician, I cannot count the times that an adolescent has said “my parents/mom/dad will kill me if they find out,” and when whatever issue it was came to light, the parent(s), though upset, were supportive problem solvers with their kid. When parents are given a chance, and when someone like a physician or counselor can help the family during the crisis, they most often come through. Bear in mind I work in an urban, poor, very diverse area with lots of underage pregnancy. I have yet to see a family injure or abandon a pregnant teen, quite the opposite, in fact.
As a parent, it infuriates and scare the bejeebus out of me that my 10 year old could one day get an abortion and I wouldn’t know about it.
On the other hand, her school will not give her an ibuprofen or allergy tablet–I have to go there and give it myself!! I kid you not. She can’t be given a pill at school, but an abortion, no problem.
You know, people sometimes get septic from infection or bleed out after abortions. They may have a drug reaction to analgesics, or a drug interaction if they don’t report meds they’re taking. It’s a surgical procedure with risks. I don’t want to go in to wake up my daughter in the morning and find out she’s been febrile, shocky, or bleeding to death during the night while I slept. Parental notification is a tricky issue, one that does not warrant a knee-jerk response.
Fredster said
EricaLeigh: I don’t envy you having that to worry or wonder about with your daughter. I’m glad it’s a situation I won’t have to face.
BTW: There’s an excellent post by Dr. Violet over at Reclusive Leftist on the Sarah Palin vs feminists issue.
http://tinyurl.com/kubxv2
Anthony said
“I’m with you on that Anthony. I posted above, “sorry, gals and guys, I got a little over-heated there on a “personal’ front.””
Nothing a shot and a beer (for me) didn’t fix! BTW, you’re art is amazing.
carolinenotakennedy said
Erica Leigh,
I have given a lot of thought to parental consent. It is a very difficult issue. But I feel completely different than you.
You failed to mention parents who would for religious reason force their 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 year old to carry to term.
If a parent has no issue with their child having an abortion they take the risk you describe above. Does knowing that their child had an abortion change any of the risks? Abortion is pretty safe now a days, thank goodness. It seems it is more dangerous to seek other ways to abort than in a virtually safe clinical environment.
It is only the others, probably/maybe a minority, that these types of laws negatively affect.
So with that in mind, I am against any laws that infringe upon a girl or women’s reproductive rights.
madamab said
I agree woth CarolineNAK.
And EricaLeigh, there is no such thing as a “pro-abortion” group. Please refrain from using that language. It is beyond inaccurate and incredibly offensive. No one is cheerleading for abortion; that is a smear from the “pro-life” group.
We are pro-choice and pro-reproductive rights.
Thank you.
madamab said
Morning Widdershins is up!
Anthony said
For the hard core pro-lifers:
Any woman I ever met who had an abortion said it was the most difficult decision they ever had to make. In the end, however serious or cavalier the reason, the child was not wanted at that time.
But what about the plight of unwanted children? Do religious perspectives even address the quality of the child’s life?
As for “God’s Word”; what do you think He says about bringing unwanted children into the world? Will HE ensure they’re wellbeing? their ability to feel loved and supported? So far, He has not filed to adopt any children that I am aware of. Seems to me that the rights of the child to ensure a loving and supported environment are not being addressed at all. Religion and politics need to remain separate issues. Just because abortion is legal doesn’t make it mandatory. if your faith frowns upon abortion, then don’t have one. Simple, no?
Although I’m not a woman, I fully support a woman’s right to choose – for her own reasons as well as the concerns I voiced above
EricaLeigh said
MadamaB, I’m sorry the term pro-abortion was upsetting to you. I am not from a member of any “pro-life” group–actually, I find that term to be offensive and inaccurate for reasons you probably understand without me going into them. Anyway, I can see from re-reading my post this morning that I was clumsy in my use of the words “pro-abortion.” I was not trying to say there are organized groups that are only for abortion rights, per se, or that womens’ reproductive rights can be reduced to a “pro-abortion” stand, I was trying to be specific about supporting access to abortion under any and all circumstances (including without parental notification), no matter the specifics. It was a distinction I had in mind as I wrote, and I conveyed it poorly. Again, sorry I offended you so deeply.
I am pro-choice, and never want to go back to a time when abortion is not available. I was not talking about parental consent, but parental notification. I understand that some people think that notification equals power to consent, but I think there should be a distinction. I appreciate Caroline’s argument about 10 year olds being forced to bear children, but in 20 years I have never seen a family force their daughter to give birth. In my area, which is mostly people of color, many of whom are very religiously conservative, more frequently it goes the other way: parents counsel for an abortion, even when the girl/young woman is leaning toward birthing, which many are, which is a whole other topic. Or the parents let her decide, and then take care of her. I have been surprised by this, it was not what I expected to see.
Again, I think this is very complex, and the complexity is not being fully honored as the various “sides” argue. I treat my adolescent patients confidentially, only notifying parents if that’s what the adolescent wants. I’ve born the rage of parents who find out after the fact that I have provided birth control, sex ed, gyn/planned parenthood referrals, and drug counseling to their children. They usually want the kids to have those services, but being so out of the loop drives them mad. And they feel that in supporting their childrens’ growing medical autonomy, I have betrayed the long-standing relationship they have with me. It’s not easy either way. When parents first learn of pregnancy, or sex, or STDs, or drug/alcohol use, they are upset, but they work it out. Most parents want to support and help their kids, and do a reasonable job given the chance.
EricaLeigh said
Caroline NAK,
Knowing my daughter had an abortion might or might not change the medical risk, if I knew in advance. But not knowing guarantees that she goes through it alone, without her parents support and caring, and then goes on to bear the secret, which could also be harmful. Thanks for being willing to dialogue on this, we may end up agreeing to disagree.
madamab said
Thanks, EricaLeigh. I appreciate what you mean. I just have never heard that term used except by anti-abortion activists, so it made my antennae quiver.
Thanks for your thoughts on parental consent vs. Notification, as well. I guess my concern, with really young women, is that they could be pregnant by their father or stepfather, so that notifying the parents might cause a lot of problems for the girl. Any thoughts on that one?
EricaLeigh said
MadamaB,
Like I said, clumsy.
I share your concern about incestuous abuse. And notification in that situation is a very specific challenge. If ever there was a reason not to notify, that would be it. But already, child abuse must be reported, no exception. So at the very least, a report would have to be made to Child Protective Services, and pending investigation, the child would be removed from the home. In that case, the parental rights are nullified, but not immediately in all cases. My best guess, having not been involved in this situation, is there would be a preliminary investigation, the child would enter foster care, the pregnancy would be terminated only if there was a court order to do so at the young woman’s request, and if the ongoing investigation nullified parental rights, they would not be notified. Maybe Angie could weigh in on this.