The Widdershins

Left-leaning unconventional wisdom.

Morning Widdershins: WHERE DID ALL THE FLOWERS GO?

Posted by Pat Johnson on August 25, 2009

flowers

Was it ever a “movement” or simply a “state of mind”? I was there from the outset when dismay followed disgust on May 31, 2008 when the party called for “unity” going forward and some of us just said “no deal”. The sentiment was in the outcome of a long primary when a more qualified candidate was passed over in place of one who lacked the credentials. Our primary objective was the double dealing exhibited by the Democratic leadership in their haste to proclaim Obama the winner, along with an adoring press who trumpeted his skills against a blank slate. But that is neither here nor there. The election is over, a thing of the past, and the resolution was to hold the DNC wholly responsible for backing what was perceived as the chosen candidate whose experience was slim and who had been led to the altar without proper vetting. Thus PUMA was born.

It was never intended to be anything more than a platform for change going forward, where all votes counted and the caucus system held up for future perusal. That, at least from my perspective, is what being a PUMA intended.
But somewhere along the line the basis for “holding their feet to the fire” somehow took a Right turn. GOP talking points, and those spouting them, began to emerge into the dialogue as “truth telling” propaganda.

Candidates who did not honor feminists viewpoints were being touted and held out for consideration. Some PUMA blogs began to allow links to Right Wing sites into daily discussions as proof of their own opinion while others insisted that all female candidates had to be supported regardless of where they stood on human rights or feminist issues. Women were being urged to support, or found themselves castigated if they expressed concern over this form of blindly supporting other women and summarily labeled as anti feminists, or suffering from some derangement disorder should they find themselves veering from the overall objective. Simply challenging that theory left one open to ridicule and made to feel unwelcome by refusing to embrace this theory. Other sites became a daily opportunity to bash all men as rapists and defilers while calling for castration as a solution to feminists woes.

After awhile it became an exercise in futility to remain among those voices who chose gender and gender bashing as a means to communicate among what were once likeminded blogs that had begun to lose sight of the original intent. To find oneself in the company of those leaning toward the GOP as the answer, and Sarah Palin is a member of that fraternity like it or not, became unsettling. There is nothing that the GOP offers, other than as the party who defended 8 years of George Bush and sought to impeach Bill Clinton for a minor moral lapse, is not where I was heading when I signed onto the PUMA brand.

I can separate Obama supporters from the Obots. The Obots to me were those idiots who flew into a room declaring all PUMAs as racists and bigots, referred to us as bitter knitters and worse, and were no more interested in a debate or dialogue then some PUMA sites are now enjoying. Obama supporters were those who seriously felt he would make a difference and were enveloped with the “feel good” message the press ignited by comparing him to every former icon, including Ghandi. He was no more deserving of those accolades then as he does now. He has backed off from most of the promises he made during the election and so far has done little to quell my doubts regarding his capabilities as a leader. But aside from the miserable ” Obots” who refuse to take issue with any one of those broken promises, I do not hold any grudge against Obama supporters who truly felt the opposite to my position. After 8 years of the worst administration known to our history who could deny the disenchantment of where our nation had been led?

But I am unable to understand this enthusiasm for the Right when they are the ones directly responsible for the situations we suffer today. Promoting the likes of Beck, Hannity, Malkin, Coulter, O’Reilly, Palin, and Bachmann is so contrary to someone who still believes in the principles of the Democratic Party, even though I am at odds of where it has led us so far, is beyond my capabilities. Death panels, defense of torture, homophobia, racism, lies, defending those who collaborated in the demise of the nation over the past 8 years, is proof enough that this is not what PUMA had originally sought to achieve. To turn to those same people as a source of guidance or comfort is astonishing.

Have we all but forgotten these horrendous years of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld that we would now be ready to enfold those who made it happen as reason enough to join in the litany of praise? As bad as the Dems are, and there are some who are pretty egregious, to look to the Right for answers or nurture is disturbing in and of itself.

I can criticize Obama without looking to the GOP to assuage my doubts. I can hold the Democratic leadership responsible for some of the ills facing this nation without having to offer credit to the Right. I can alter my “state of mind” by declaring that I am a “Democrat in exile” without casting my hopes toward a party made up of bigots and fundies who want to separate me from the few rights I have left to exercise.  I can do this without remorse for my decision to remain unlabeled and independent of thought.   I do not have to consider myself a PUMA in order to exercise that right to exult or despair.

I do not need a label to identify who I am.

81 Responses to “Morning Widdershins: WHERE DID ALL THE FLOWERS GO?”

  1. taggles said

    Pat, it’s sort of eerie, how we have all been feeling pretty much the same. It is strange how it all got so twisted! I for one, am feeling free! I don’t have to hold my tongue to go along to get along while my principles were being stripped from the dialogue!

    Love to all ya Widdershins! Let’s rock on!

  2. DYB said

    Welcome back, Pat! And well said.

    I can alter my “state of mind” by declaring that I am a “Democrat in exile” without casting my hopes toward a party made up of bigots and fundies who want to separate me from the few rights I have left

    A PUMA blog linking to Beck (unless it’s the video of Beck crying – ’cause that’s just funny) and Coulter has definitely jumped the shark. PUMA was not a movement for all Hillary supporters. It was a movement for Democrats or Democrat-caucusing-Independents who supported Clinton and were angered by the Democratic party. It was for people who supported ideals of the Democratic party (and Hillary Clinton) even if they were not registered with any party. Right-wing ideas were never ever supposed to be part of the movement.

  3. carolinenotakennedy said

    I have been having PJ withdrawl. Thank heaven you are back, I missed you! Hope what ever you have been up to was enjoyable and brought you happiness.

    This post, this friggin post speaks for me!

    It was never intended to be anything more than a platform for change going forward, where all votes counted and the caucus system held up for future perusal. That, at least from my perspective, is what being a PUMA intended.

    That is what I joined up for!

    Then this is what actually happened:

    But somewhere along the line the basis for “holding their feet to the fire” somehow took a Right turn. GOP talking points, and those spouting them, began to emerge into the dialogue as “truth telling” propaganda.

    You sure have a way with words, there is nothing to add for me because you said it perfectly! TYVM Pat Johnson and welcome home!

  4. chatblu said

    There is a wonderful website entitled “Sweet Jesus, I hate Bill O’Reilly”. Check it out.

  5. madamab said

    Pat, so well-said as usual! Welcome back! :-D

    We on the left are simply no longer welcome in the movement. If you go to almost any PUMA blog these days and start talking about liberal ideals or criticizing Republicans, you will be troll-swarmed or even banned.

    We were a part of something that was quite amazing and freeing for a while. Then, it got overtaken by the same forces it was supposed to be fighting.

    I will not allow my name to be used to legitimize something that has become a Republican apologist movement.

    My political state of mind will always be the same, no matter what I call myself. But PUMA expected me to change the very principles that caused me to join it. I just couldn’t go on pretending it was what I wanted it to be.

    Ah well. I think it was important in its time and caused me to meet some wonderful, wonderful people. So, I will never regret joining it. PUMA freed me from my state of always feeling I had to defend every Democrat, and for that I am also quite grateful.

  6. madamab said

    OMG, chatblu, thanks for reminding me of that site…I used to go there all the time but kind of forgot about it.

    It is hilarious!

  7. madamab said

    And speaking of “a few good Democrats…” Russ Feingold is directly challenging Obama on Afghanistan. The link is in the “Breaking News” widget above.

    The Obama administration has been keenly aware of discontent among many in its liberal base with regard to its Afghanistan policy and an expected request for additional troops following General McChrystal’s upcoming assessment of the situation there.

    That liberal base just got a high-profile voice to lead its charge.

    Sen. Russ Feingold, D-WI, called on President Obama to announce a timetable for withdrawal of American troops from Afghanistan. “This is a strategy that is not likely to succeed,” Sen. Feingold said about the troop buildup in Afghanistan.

    “After eight years, I am not convinced that pouring more and more troops into Afghanistan is a well thought out policy,” said Feingold. The liberal Democrat said he has expressed his reservations with President Obama, Admiral Mullen, and others inside the administration and he says he has “never been convinced they have a good answer.”

    “I think it is time we start discussing a flexible timetable so that people around the world can see when we are going to bring our troops out,” said Feingold. “Showing the people there and here that we have a sense about when it is time to leave is one of the best things we can do,” he added.

    Thank you, Senator Feingold. If you want to thank him for standing up for our overworked, exhausted troops, here is his website.

    U.S. Senator Russ Feingold

  8. Cinie said

    Good mornin’! good mornin’!
    We danced the whole night through!
    Good mornin’! Good mornin’ to you!

    Hiya, Pat!
    Be of good cheer, all and sundry! Why the hell not?

    Anyway, to the post… “somewhere along the line”…happened Day One, if not before. On some of the early sites, like Clinton Dems, where anybody could post, soon and very soon the talking points from the darkside started showing up. Even before May 31, a lot of the NoBama sites were really GOoP’ed out. And No Quarter and RBO always had a rightward tilt. Hell, McCain picking Palin was a pretty damned near straightline-direct reaction to PUMA, purt’ near born in our midst. It was when the Elephantines started encroaching on the old and established liberal PUMA sites and having way too much influence that things got out of hand. It was one thing to let everybody speak their piece, but, when Democrats got spammed for being Obots, but Rightwingers got “Amens” and Attagirls,” just because they weren’t, that’s when…slowly, I turned…step, by step…
    Party Unity My Ass meant both Obots and GOoPers sucked equally. At least, that’s the way I remember it.

    Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

  9. Pat Johnson said

    There are “bad apples” coming from both sides of the aisle but to forget what the Right has wrought is astonishing. Name one coherent voice coming from that side of the aisle if you can.

    Silence. Thought so.

  10. samanthasmom said

    I’ve been “listening”, and I think the difference, Pat, is that although you say that you are in exile, you still consider yourself a Democrat. You’re hoping for a day when your party will live up to the principles and ideals that you once believed it had. If that day happens, you plan to return. In the meantime you are hoping to forge alliances with other Democrats who agree with you. The point that you are missing is that some of us are not in exile. We’ve moved out forever. If there is a Republican candidate that has ideas that we can support, we will. If there’s a woman running for office, and voting for her will increase the number of women in office, we’re going to vote for her. There’s no guarantee that either candidate, Democrat or Republican, will do what he or she says during the campaign so why not vote for the woman? I think that many of us are more disillusioned with the Dems than you are. You’re trying to find your way back to them, and we’re moving forward without them. I’m not putting a value judgment on it. It’s just the way it is. We’re not crazy, and we haven’t sold out on our ideals. We’re just open to looking outside the Democratic Party without prejudice. I really like Olympia Snowe. I don’t care that she’s a Republican.

  11. madamab said

    But Pat, Michelle Malkin really has some good points. I especially enjoyed her well-thought-out response to Harry Reid’s criticism of the Iraq war:

  12. madamab said

    Samanthasmom…for me, the point is that my values have not changed. If there is a Republican woman who represents those values, through her actions, not her words, then I will vote for her.

    Olympia Snowe is a decent Republican, but in the end, she will not work for the things that I most care about. She is one of those who is trying to destroy the public option, for example.

    The GOP in the past was a lot more open to moderates than it is now. Eisenhower was probably more liberal than most Democrats today, and even Nixon created some good social programs (like OSHA). But these days I am hard-pressed to find even one GOPer that I could support in good conscience.

    Given my left-leaning values, I am more likely to find representation on the Democratic side at this point. After desperately trying to find common ground with the Republicans, I have come to realize that there is none.

  13. Thank you Pat! I’ve been mulling those thoughts in my mind intensely for the past few days – thank you for voicing them better than I could!
    I don’t believe PUMA – as such exists anymore.
    And for your entertainment, a bit of Obama puff and shine
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/08/25/puff-and-shine/

  14. Pat Johnson said

    samanthasmom: Let’s just say that I find fault with both parties. Perhaps not equally, but the voices and names of those in leadership today are the same ones we have had no choice but to listen to for the past 25 years. Neither party, IMHO, has the best interests of the electorate as their primary concern. Each party has sold out to the special interests on behalf of their own aggrandizement and I am not defending the Dems by any means.

    I reserve the right to hold my applause, or level my criticism, at anyone of these reps who would sell us out on behalf of their own self interests regardless of which party they represent. I think we can all agree that we have little trust in many of those who now occupy a seat of power. Yes, I do hope to see my party one day reclaim the principles and values I hold dear. But clinging to, or repeating those who represent the Right, is a stretch.

    What we are witnessing at the moment is a complete subjugation offered by both sides in their goal to uphold private insurers and pharma interests as they have accepted their donations over the years strictly for their own self interests while thwarting the needs of the public good. Both sides are equally at fault and as each one points a finger at the other, they show us exactly who they are.

  15. pdgrey said

    Pat, you always say what I feel better than me. Why is that, Ha!

  16. Pat Johnson said

    I am not hardbound against anyone who attempts to make sense, who bravely separates themselves from the “party line” every so often and demonstrates the courage it takes to do so.

    But I am unable to see any one Repub step out of character at this point and break with the solid line of GOP talking points which they all spout in unison. At least Russ Feingold has shown that courage to openly criticize a policy that may lead us further into the mire that is Afghanistan. That signifies a level of courage in and of itself.

  17. Pat Johnson said

    pdgrey: It’s like we are all stuck in a “bad marriage”. We keep giving these fools one more chance to make it right but they keep coming back, year after year, with the same level of incompetence and indifference to the public needs while we sit here hoping for something different to emerge.

    The level of integrity coming from either side of the political spectrum is lacking. We do not trust either Pelosi or Reid anymore than we do McConnell or Boehner which puts us in the middle of a congressional delegation that could give a rat’s ass about us. Add to that an indifferent president happy to wear the title but unable to lead and you have a very unhappy group of citizens who have finally come to the inevitable conclusion that they do not matter in the world of political reality.

  18. Pat Johnson said

    The sad fact is that Obama had the opportunity to “lead” but instead seems to have “capitulated” rather easily to special interests and the ridiculous adage that he could make bipartisan arrangements with the other side. As a result, we are watching an ineffective politician acting more like a community organizer than the leader we were told would make a difference.

    There is little difference to show in the first 8 months of governing that does not mirror what the previous 8 years had established. A solid majority means little when you watch this man flounder in his quest for purchase.

    Sad to say, but he is a “washout” so far.

  19. I am linking my own declaration of independence – not so much for the entry itself – but for the discussion it generated
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/no-longer-affiliated-with-everyone/

  20. madamab said

    Pat: This is how I feel too.

    I am not hardbound against anyone who attempts to make sense, who bravely separates themselves from the “party line” every so often and demonstrates the courage it takes to do so.

    But I am unable to see any one Repub step out of character at this point and break with the solid line of GOP talking points which they all spout in unison. At least Russ Feingold has shown that courage to openly criticize a policy that may lead us further into the mire that is Afghanistan. That signifies a level of courage in and of itself.

    Imagine defending Russ Feingold at a PUMA site?! I don’t think you would get nearly as friendly a reception.

    We should be able to both criticize politicians when they do not act in our interests, AND support them when they do. I saw the former possibility with PUMA, but not the latter.

  21. Pat Johnson said

    madamab: I was one who was not overly impressed when Al Franken finally took his place in DC. But what little I have seen so far has edged him up a notch so to speak. He has shown the concerns that many of us have felt but were not included in the conversation which is parceled out to us in bits and pieces.

    I WANT to believe in someone or something. I want to be reassured that we are being represented to the best of the abilities supposedly carried to DC on our behalf. So far, the few I pay attention to are Bernie Saunders and Russ Feingold. A grand total of the very few.

    Unbelievable.

  22. madamab said

    Yes, Pat – the Senate is really quite lacking from my point of view. Two out of 100 is not exactly inspiring! And Bernie Sanders is not even a Democrat. LOL

  23. madamab said

    P.S. I am excited for Senator Al. I think he may be one more that is working for us, not for the corporations/fundiegelicals.

  24. pdgrey said

    Gee, Pat that marriage analogy is right down my alley, I’m beginning to think you’re channeling me. Where did I put that “silver hat”. Once again, Pat, you and Cinie are great! I suppose we all enjoy finding views we can agree with. But for me it’s the way you put it together, always a wonderful read.

  25. la-t-da said

    I have come to the point that the flowers are still there, Pat. (I think I have gotten toward completion of the 7 stages of grief that Caroline and I were discussing yesterday. No more “Bargaining” phase.) All those in exile, which probably includes a wealth of Pumas that identify as liberal googling the web to “find their people”, are but searching for new flowers in the wilderness. Hell, Moses found Mana from Heaven. We will surely find some freaking flowers. I suppose my new question is, “Will those flowers be edible or just pretty window dressing?” Either way the, flowers still replenish the soul.

  26. carolinenotakennedy said

    samanthasmom,

    When Pat said:

    It was never intended to be anything more than a platform for change going forward, where all votes counted and the caucus system held up for future perusal. That, at least from my perspective, is what being a PUMA intended

    That WAS the reason I joined and became Puma. I thought we Pumas were going to work on bring change to all the coruption we witnessed during the primary. I am still a registered Dem(tho no longer call or consider myself a Democrat, protest voted for Mac/Palin and have been trying to find time/agreement on fulfilling Pumas ‘original intent’ of holding our party’s feet to the fire and getting change. That became impossible to do because we Pumas were taken over by the RW and their recruitment of democratic pumas to become republicans. It was a good astroturf campaign and worked to change many D’s to R’s. It is obvious that many of you are not in exile and have moved out forever.

    No one is trying to beg you to stay true to the original intent of Puma and there is nothing wrong with you voting for whomever you choose and having your own opinion. I too have my own opinion, many of you who have chosen to run to the right have been astroturfed. That is MY opinion, right or wrong makes no matter, I have a right to it.

    Personally, I can’t think of one single Republican that I would support (man or woman), their agenda is the complete opposite of mine. I am a liberal afterall. The primary did not change my values or principles, they just ticked me off at the Democratic Party. I have never had one lick of like for any Republican Policy in my life and doubt I ever will. It would take a lot more than Hillary’s primary loss to turn me to the right and I can see it certainly didn’t turn Hillary right either. PS: I don’t care for Snowe or Collins either one.

  27. la-t-da said

    “Imagine defending Russ Feingold at a PUMA site?! I don’t think you would get nearly as friendly a reception.”

    Hell, image when I start supporting Barbabra Boxer on the front page for her career efforts and work for the Climate Change Bill. :wink:

  28. la-t-da said

    It just seems to me, that their came that moment on some puma sites when that “Train had left the station”. We didn’t like it when Donna Brazile said that to us. Why would we tolerate it when the puma train started to slow and then slowly started backing up toward the direction of but another one-corporate-party train station?

  29. Pat Johnson said

    la t da: I see it more as a mixture of viewpoints. Some never became interested in politics until Hillary declared and their disappointment in her defeat is a primary concern to them. Others found solace in the Right Wing because of their dislike of Obama and this only fuels their “I told you so” mantra. Then there are those who are unable to separate one party platform from another and prefer to believe that Obama is such a disaster that the only place to go is over to the Repubs who reinforce their negativity toward him.

    With Obama preferring to lead from above the fray, much of the consternation is well earned. He has yet to offer one area of agreement with those of us who sought a more progressive agenda and a return to equal rights.

    President In Name Only.

  30. madamab said

    But La-t-da, Barbara Boxer is a woman. I don’t see why the other PUMA sites wouldn’t support her, since they insist they support ALL WOMEN.

    (bats eyelashes innocently)

  31. samanthasmom said

    Pat, I think your “bad marriage” analogy is right on, and I think that the rift in the PUMA movement is between the “stand by your man” and “kick the bum out” factions. I respect your right to want to “work on keeping your marriage together”. I would never call you crazy for wanting the Democratic Party to live up to your ideals. It’s just that for some people, enough is enough, and divorce is the better option. And I don’t want HR 3200 to pass with or without the public option. I want Medicare for All or nothing. Living in MA, I’m sure you know what a farce RomneyCare has been, and HR 3200 is RomneyCare on steroids. I’d happily join you in working for single payer health reform and for any congresscritter, regardless of party, who would get on board. But I won’t support HR 3200 with you. It goes against my ideals. So I will support the Democrats and Republicans who want it to fail. There seems to be a significant number of each. I’m going to head over to a couple of PUMA sites before the day is out and say something nice about Russ Feingold and see what happens.

  32. cleffnote said

    Wow, all of my frustrations the past six months in one blog post. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you Pat.

    The question I keep asking is, why was I too dumb to see what is happening? When Hillary said was it me or was it what I believe in that you supported. I yelled back ya Hillary, it was you, knowing in my heart it was both. I miss some of the PUMA conversations we had during the campaign, I honestly believed we were all on the same page. Now, I don’t think we were even in the same book. It was hard to let go, because I thought I had found people who believed and fought like me, but I have let go and am the better for it.

    Thanks for showing me that we were fighting for something righteous.

  33. la-t-da said

    I think I get it, Pat. Perhaps I was really never a puma. I don’t know. I came into Pumaland already as one of those left of the left registered Independents since 1998. Maybe I had already felt the grief of leaving the Dem party then for the same reasons that I think puma started.

    For me to support Hillary Clinton was a “damn it moment”. I had never intended to get involved in two party politics again at the presidential level. My left of my left friends questioned if I had lost my freaking mind when I started campaigning for Hillary. They would have thought the same if I would have did it for Obama which I never considered.

    Coming from the left I the left I could smell the fauxprogressive stench from a mile away from the Obama Machine. I got back into this shit to support Hillary and fight for women and the environment from “within” the system. That was a different course for me as I had always tended toward working outside of the system.

    I was always accepted at HC.com for my left of the left stance. The acceptance just seemed to shift when I started reiterating my left of the left views again (to confront the right wing crap) in pumaland. That shift of acceptance happened with those I had really connected with at HC and who connected with my strong liberal views.

  34. la-t-da said

    Cleffnote, I love you so much. Cleff and I have been together in “pumaland” since the beginning. Until we got the hell out a while ago. I have had no greater alley in the “scratching of our heads” of that “what the hell just happened” moments. We would scream, “Did I really see a Dick Morris piece on a puma site!” “Was that a freaking Thomas Sowell piece!” “Oh my god! Am I crazy or did I really see that!”

  35. madamab said

    I was pretty much protected from the RW stuff at the PUMA sites I went to, but I noticed the takeover around the same time Taggles did. I stopped going to more and more sites until I was down to just a couple. Then, some of us formed TW as a haven for the more left-leaning among us. And here we are, kicked out completely.

    I am not welcome anywhere but here, it seems. Neither PUMA nor Obot am I!

  36. Miss Becky said

    Wow. thank you so very much. what you write is exactly what I have been feeling for quite awhile. What happened? I no longer have any place to go where I feel I have a political identity. A strong, loyal Democrat for 40 years, I left my party last May. I am a Clinton Democrat, a raging moderate. There is no place for me on the current political landscape. Both wings of both parties are fighting it out over some exremely important issues and the lies, shouting, heat, fear, what-have-you, being thrown back and forth is disturbing. I told my sister last year, when she supported Obama, that both parties were corrupt and extreme, the days of the moderates had waned. I feel lost w/o my party, but I cannot support Obama. He just doesn’t appeal to me, I do NOT trust him, and I don’t even like the guy. Actually, I cannot even listen to or watch him; he seems a fraud to me and always has, after I took a good look at him during the primaries. I was prepared to have difficulty deciding between him and Hillary, but man, that didn’t prove to be true for very long. I was always always a Clinton fan/supporter and when comparing side to side, there was just no contest. Then, once the primaries began and Obama’s tactics/personality/campaign unfolded, there was just no way I was ever going to like or respect that guy. Now I am lost. My state has open primaries, so I didn’t have to change my party identity, but consider myself an independent. I did not vote for Obama, but voted instead for McCain, thinking he was the lesser evil of the two. I am not a Republican however. At one time I spent a lot of time in political forums and on blogs, but was disturbed by those ex-Dems who appeared almost Republican in their new-found political identity. I became confused, wondering what the hell happened. I mean, we were just protesting the actions of the DNC, and vowing not to support Obama; it wasn’t about changing our principles. My values are the same. I just want President Clinton back. Or, most of all, I want Hillary to be President. The only reason I would listen to Beck, O’Reilly, or Hannity would be to gloat over their criticism of Obama, but I don’t have their values. I am not a liberal either, I don’t think, because I don’t believe that spending, spending, spending is the answer. I just don’t know where I belong anymore, so thanks for asking where did all the flowers go, because I wonder the same thing. My party betrayed me and I haven’t yet gotten over it. Now where do I go from here???

  37. madamab said

    Samanthasmom,

    I want Medicare for All or nothing. Living in MA, I’m sure you know what a farce RomneyCare has been, and HR 3200 is RomneyCare on steroids. I’d happily join you in working for single payer health reform and for any congresscritter, regardless of party, who would get on board. But I won’t support HR 3200 with you. It goes against my ideals.

    I don’t think anyone here is fighting for HR 3200. I personally am using my energies to advocate for single-payer only.

    La-t-da, please tell me if I am misspeaking.

  38. madamab said

    Well, Miss Becky, you can hang out here for a while if you want. :-)

  39. la-t-da said

    Interesting, Becky, we kinda said some of the same things though I come from a “raging liberal” position and as you said from a “raging moderate”. That tells me something, though I am not sure what. :shock: Something resonated though. Be back in a minute. I have to go tell Mb if she is misspeaking. :grin:

  40. la-t-da said

    I was just joking, Mb. I would never tell you if you are misspeaking. (Unless I have a nuclear moment.) Don’t ever offer a Scorpio such power. There egos, or maybe ids, are always tempted to take another up on such an offer. It is a karmic trait we must strive to overcome on a daily basis. :wink:

  41. madamab said

    LOL La-t-da!

    Don’t mind me if I disappear for a while. I’m at work.

    :-D

  42. la-t-da said

    And besides that, I will go finish the freaking “robust public option” vs “public option” piece. That “what the hell does that rhetoric mean” piece that I am supposed to be working on. I will tell you if you are misspeaking from the front page. LOL

    Thank you, Widdershins, for following your determination, fortitude, and gut. It is really good to see some old and new faces.

  43. Pat Johnson said

    I am for single payer. Period. The “fight” going on between both parties is an attempt to mask the simple fact that both are in up to their lying necks with the special interests and lobbys who want nothing to do with healthcare reform.

    Whatever they eventually come up with will be nothing short of appeasement for those companies and CEOs to continue to soak the public and deny treatment if it is to effect the bottom line.

    This is all theater as far as I am concerned. When you “pay to play” you are expecting a return on the investment. That return does not include “reform”.

    Campaign reform and term limits may offer a semblance of integrity but don’t hold your breath waiting for it to happen. Too much money changing hands for actual reform to take place. Both sides know it.

  44. taggles said

    I’ve been busy with back to school stuff. But wanterd to say that it’s nice to see some new faces who feel pretty much the same way we do. That is why this blog was created. To give people who have become uncomfortable with all the RW bs on blogs we use to comment on. That’s why the banner says, “left leaning unconventional wisdom”. To give us a voice that was missing! :-)

  45. Pat Johnson said

    What, taggles, you don’t love Glenn Beck???? Purist!!!!!!!!!

  46. taggles said

    Fighting for single payer is the only way to try and get something good out of what we will get. Fighting the PO in this climate lends credence to the whackaloons who want no healthcare reform.

  47. taggles said

    Glenn Beck is a dangerous racists POS. Whipping up the masses to promote the rightest of the RW. I truly believe he is trying to incite some nutso to do something violent.

  48. jillforhill said

    O/T
    Why would anyone support Bachmann,she is crazy. Does puma want us to support this woman and rally around her? Sorry if this has been posted already.

    Bachmann: Prayer and fasting will help defeat health care reform
    By Paul Demko 8/24/09 4:35 PM

    Photo: MnIndy
    On Wednesday Rep. Michele Bachmann was part of a star-studded “teletownhall” meeting to discuss health-care reform. The event, billed “Keeping Faith with the Unborn,” was sponsored by the Susan B. Anthony List, an anti-abortion advocacy group. The organization’s president, Marjorie Dannenfelser, claimed that there were some 350,000 listeners on the line.
    Bachmann was joined by North Carolina Rep. Virginia Foxx, most famous for calling Matthew Shepard’s murder was a “hoax,” and former Colorado Rep. Marilyn Musgrave, who made national headlines by refusing to concede after losing her re-election contest November. But even with such veteran political pugilists sharing the phone line, Bachmann managed to distinguish herself during the 90-minute phone call.

    The 6th district Republican quoted the late British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, attacked Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius for receiving political contributions from a medical doctor who was murdered in May, and called on everyone to get down on their knees and pray that health care reform fails. Bachmann didn’t always make sense, but she undoubtedly scared the living daylights out of anyone on the line.

    Bachmann repeated the myth, adopted early by Sarah Palin, that the health-care plans being debated in Congress would set up “death panels” to determine which old folks are entitled to health care. “Thank God that Sarah Palin said that,” she told the callers. “These are true.”

    In response to a caller from Minnesota who wanted to know if there was a plan afoot in Washington to require all medical doctors to perform abortions, Bachmann didn’t exactly shoot the suggestion down.

    “Unless we explicitly restrict these items, I think we can fully expect that these radical pro-abortion individuals could very likely make those decisions,” she told the caller. “All of us who have labored tirelessly in the pro-life cause for years and years and years, we know what these people are capable of. That’s why they have to be tied down by restrictions explicitly in law.”

    She also suggested that it might be some kind of religious destiny that hardy souls such as herself are in Congress at this time.

    “We all need to consider that in God’s timing that he may have allowed us, as members of Congress, to be in the position that we’re in just for this specific issue right now,” she said. “Everything that all of us have worked together and labored for over the years, all of it could be undermined with this one bill. President Obama realizes that. The radicals that are on the pro-abortion left, they realize that. They could win it all. And the unborn, and the vulnerable, the disabled and those at the end of life could lose it it all.”

    But it was Bachmann’s fervent call to utilize prayer and fasting to beat back health-care reform efforts that was the true highlight of the call.

    “That’s really where this battle will be won — on our knees in prayer and fasting,” she told the listeners. “Remember: faith without works is dead. So we’re asking you to do all of it: pray, fast, believe, trust the Lord, but also act.”

    http://minnesotaindependent.com/42612/bachmann-prayer-and-fasting-will-help-defeat-health-care-reform

  49. madamab said

    I second that emotion, taggles. :-D

    OMG JillforHill!

    Just reading that sheer lunacy made my eyeballs hurt.

  50. Pat Johnson said

    Michele Bachmann is a star within the Fruit Loop Brigade corps. One can only hope for her defeat next year. Otherwise, her “star” will rise and her insane views will be highlighted as are Palin’s whenever she opens her mouth.

  51. Pat Johnson said

    Uh oh, madamab, looks like Rudy may take a run at the governor’s office in NY state. Ouch!

  52. chatblu said

    Miss Becky, I am also a Clinton Democrat, a term which I think will have more and more resonance as time passes. I am a just-left-of-center moderate, and I have been warmly welcomed here at The Widdershins. Come sit a spell with us. It’s a good place to be, and as Mad and CNAK will attest, we are hardly an echo chamber. We have our share of internicene spats, but we are committed to a principle and in many ways, to one another. We are of many faiths, of many locales, of many ethnic groups and of differing sexual persuasions. We are of one mind on a number of issues, and we respect each other on the rest. I hope that you will stay and add some more salt to our simmering stew.

  53. madamab said

    Pat: Maybe if “God” tells him to.

    ;-)

    Our Dem Governor is very unpopular right now. He was never elected (was Lt. Gov, took over after idiot Eliot Spitzer could not stay away from prostitutes), and people are blaming him for the chaos in Albany right now. It’s really not his fault – it’s all about the same-sex marriage bill. A few key “Dems” in the State Senate are refusing to vote for it and they are stabbing him in the back.

    My poli-sci professor friend is hoping that Andrew Cuomo will be the gubernatorial nominee. He would be a great choice, IMHO.

  54. madamab said

    I just have to see this again – from JillforHill’s link:

    In response to a caller from Minnesota who wanted to know if there was a plan afoot in Washington to require all medical doctors to perform abortions, Bachmann didn’t exactly shoot the suggestion down.

    “Unless we explicitly restrict these items, I think we can fully expect that these radical pro-abortion individuals could very likely make those decisions,” she told the caller. “All of us who have labored tirelessly in the pro-life cause for years and years and years, we know what these people are capable of. That’s why they have to be tied down by restrictions explicitly in law.”

    What.
    The.
    $)%(*&!!)(!*(&!)!!!

  55. taggles said

    Chatblu, that was really nice! Very nice welcome! Thank you!

  56. taggles said

    Chatblu is hereforth ordained director of the welcoming committee! :-)

  57. madamab said

    I agree, taggles – that was beautifully spoken, chatblu!

    See, I told you you were as Widdershinian as it gets!

    ;-)

  58. chatblu said

    (Blushing). I accept, gratefully. I just know that this is a wonderful haven for me, and I think that there are any number of souls casting about in the political tempest out there, and “out there” is a very bad place to be these days. We’ll leave the porch light on for them, and hopefully they’ll come in from the storm.

  59. chatblu said

    If I were sufficiently talented, I would embed “Shelter From the Storm”.

  60. taggles said

    Just saw this video over at think progress.

    Tom Coburn tell this woman (her husband is being denied services for a traumatic brain injury) that his office will help her, but that Government is not answer to this h/c crisis!

    WTF? My contempt for this arsehole knows no bounds!

  61. madamab said

    For chatblu and all the Widdershins:

  62. madamab said

    Taggles – did you know that dude is a doctor?!

    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!!!!

  63. chatblu said

    THanks, Mad. I think this says it all for The Widdershins.

  64. SHV said

    Taggles – did you know that dude is a doctor?!
    *********
    Coburn and Ron Paul are both Ob/Gyns

  65. madamab said

    Well, SHV, doesn’t that just blow your mind? I’m so glad I never encountered either of those two in my travels!

  66. @madamab
    I am not shocked Baucus made that statement on abortions. After all, Teh One did it first
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/obamapraise-the-lord-we-dont-fund-abortions/

  67. la-t-da said

    I definitely wouldn’t let either of those “doctor” hands anywhere near my fortitude.

  68. madamab said

    La-t-da – that would be a wise decision. Coburn was the one who got in trouble for a possible forced sterilization.

  69. madamab said

    So…how do people feel about Bernanke most likely being re-nominated as Chair of the Federal Reserve? From Martha’s Vineyard, no less!

    The guy is a Republican and a champion of deregulation. Obama loves him…quelle surprise!

    :roll:

  70. la-t-da said

    New thread coming up.

    It is an email I received from a Single Payer Advocacy Email List Serve: The Pen.

    It provides another source for direct action. There are links provided to check out to see if you want to work with this group. Otherwise, the email as a whole is pretty educational.

  71. la-t-da said

    Ok. Take it Upstairs for Single Payer.

  72. taggles said

    Samanthasmom,

    Umm, excuse me, but where do you get off telling us that we remain stuck in a bad marriage and are trying to make it work?

    That is the biggest line of bullshit I think I have read on the Widdershins from people of your ilk. Making excuses for the total sell out of their principles and taking the easy way out!

    You have no right to come here and accuse us of trying to work with a party that obviously, if you read here, does not represent our values. Did you even read and comprehend Pat’s post???

    We are the ones sticking to principles and not licking the balls of the DNC and not running to another party against our own best interest. We are the ones taking a stand against the DNC and Republicans.

    This may be too tough of a concept for someone like you, but since when is standing on principle and fighting for what you believe make someone a victim of battered wives syndrome? (which is quite a sexist accusation to say the least), which is what you have implied.

    Actually, I think your vision and sell out is just running into the arms of a new batterer. Good luck in your endeavours.

  73. la-t-da said

    Ummm, taggles. I thought chatblu was the welcoming committee. LOL (major snark, bordering on snarkasm)

  74. taggles said

    I wonder how many republicans samanthasmom is going to find to support single payer. This is the type of thought that is hopey changey bologne without looking at the reality of the republican party.

    —-shaking head—–

    Good fucking luck moving forward liberal ideology (single payer) when working with and voting for republicans! Epic FAIL.

  75. la-t-da said

    I had just pretty much bypassed that earlier today. Just didn’t feel like getting into it…at the moment…with another meme. I was wondering where you were though, taggles. LOL (I hope the school shopping went well.)

  76. taggles said

    We did it once, to try to get our party back, that’s where it ends for me! I am advocating liberal policies, and I know there aint one republican who shares that with me and not enough democrats do or have the back bone too, so………..

    It isn’t hopping into bed with the democratic party. It’s trying to build a movement of liberal policies that are not being met by either party as it stands today.

  77. taggles said

    and I become mighty suspicious of anyone or any entity (puma or not) who sees a problem with that.

  78. la-t-da said

    Well, you know me. I am so left of the left that I am just happy to have a couple of blog homes left with some pretty damn powerful women that I meet along the way in supporting Hillary.

    The email I threaded above is from some of those left of the lefters who probably have no clue who puma is or every was. Lot’s of the non-obot left is out there scattered around the technology revolution net. (Remember if we take it to the streets now, we get put in those “freedom cages”.)

  79. madamab said

    Taggles – I too let that one go. Glad to see you tackled it. I’m so over that crap that WE are the divisive ones when THEY have kicked US out of PUMA.

    She is happy with PUMA. Good for her. We’re not. C’est la vie!

  80. Fredster said

    Taggles: Did the lady in the Rick Sanchez vid have private health insurance, a la Blue Cross, United Health etc?

    Geez, if he has a traumatic brain injury maybe she can get him placed in Medicare or Medicaid, but that process won’t be swift.

  81. taggles said

    I’m not sure Fredster. It didn’t say which greedy bastard insurance company held her policy!

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