Morning Widdershins: What is the Role of Government?
Posted by: chatblu on: September 29, 2009
Should we drown government in this?
There is an ongoing kerfuffle between left and right as to the actual role, practice, and scope of government, particularly of the federal government. “We the people” live in the middle of this ongoing fracas, trying desperately to live out our lives to the best of our ability. On the left, we have people who have co-opted Sir William Gladstone’s oft-repeated “Show me the manner in which it cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical exactness the tender mercies of its people, their respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalties to high ideals” and inserted the young, the old, the sick and the elderly. On the right we have the devotees of Grover Norquist, whose stated goal was and is “…..to cut the government in half in 25 years to get it down to the size where it can be drowned in the bathtub”. Here at TW, I’m pretty certain that most of us are closer to Gladstone than to Norquist.
The constitution contains that tricky little tenth amendment, which guarantees all rights not given to the federal government to be those of the state. As the years have gone by, many federal dollars have flown into state programs, basically concerning the health, education, and welfare of the citizens, and herein lies a big, fat rub. No Child Left Behind is, at least here in SoFla, leaving children behind in heaps and drifts. The concept is good –one standardized test that measures pupil (and thereby teacher and institutional performances) equally, until you realize that students who speak little or no English are tested with the general population and their scores are assigned equal weight with those who could comprehend the test questions. One friend who has taught third grade told me tearfully that she has students who speaking varying dialects of Spanish, Creole and Farsi in her class. They are allotted precisely one hour per week of extra instruction. The same golden hour is granted to students with diagnosed learning disabilities ranging from mild ADD to full-blown disorders such as acoustic processing disorder, in which students do not comprehend verbal instructions (my grandson has that coupled with an IQ >140. My daughter and son-in-law now write large checks to a private school so that this beautiful, intelligent, talented child does not become a statistic, and I thank God that they can do so.
The welfare system also varies greatly from state to state. You are much better off requiring assistance in New York or Philadelphia than in Miami. If you are a political refugee, there is an abundance of money to help you. If not, you have limited benefits for a limited time. The money just isn’t there to help you. Hailey Barber of Mississippi became infamous for declining the bailout money in order to extend unemployment in his state – his theory is that he just doesn’t have the money to sustain the program, and I’m quite certain that he is absolutely correct, even though I think that in general, he is a pompous jerk. The loss of the very few manufacturing jobs has turned many Southern states into economic dustbowls.
Lastly, there is the health aspect. Most states, even the poorest, have decent Public Health Departments that try their hardest to provide care, immunize children, encourage prenatal and well-baby care, and contain and treat communicable disease. I spent two years of my life working Public Health in Appalachia, and they were two of the most rewarding and frustrating years of my career. Not a lot of federal money, at least proportionately, has dribbled into health care on the local level, and it is sorely needed. There is Medicare and the Veteran’s Administration, and both programs do try hard. The VA has faced challenges, but the local clinics seem to do a pretty good job of things for the most part. Medicare is mammoth, but provides service for five cents on the dollar as opposed to the forty cents that the private sector appears to require. Of course, the right decries “entitlement programs”, but I generally reply that indeed I am as entitled to Medicare – I paid it forward during the course of a long career – as I am to the contents of my savings account. (One couple that I know – she is on Medicare, he under the VA system – told me indignantly that they want the government out of their medical care. Now, how do you do that, exactly?)
So, Widdershinnians, herein lies the rub. Gladstone would be thrilled with the general respect given to the dead, but Chatblu is kind of horrified with the lack of it shown to living members of society who so badly need our help. I cannot agree with Grover on the downsizing of government, but I see the point of the states rights advocates: if you are going to help the state governments, please create some workable parameters instead of sweeping, underfunded mandates that make matters worse than what they might have otherwise been.
This is an open thread.
44 Responses to "Morning Widdershins: What is the Role of Government?"
September 29, 2009 at 11:23 AM
EOF – just got a letter from Chuck Schumer, who is pushing for a “strong public option.” I was shocked because I thoght he’d be in the Baucus camp, but apparently not.
I think ol’ Chuck is going to get a few bucks from yours truly.
September 29, 2009 at 11:28 AM
Stay strong, Chuckster. Our Bill Nelson has got his shoulder to the wheel for Medicare Advantage, which is personally think should go, but many Fl@rida seniors depend on it. Hopefully, more Dems will get into slavage modality here.
September 29, 2009 at 11:45 AM
I think Chuck Schumer was always a spporter of Hillary’s health care plan, which is basically what is being called “the public option” and pushed by “progressives” now. The irony is, if she were President, “progressives” would be pushing for Medicare for All, and rightly so.
Sigh. I’m just glad Chuck is throwing Obama under the bus here. Unfortunately, a lot of Congresscritters do not have the seniority or the financing to do the same.
September 29, 2009 at 11:47 AM
Or, sadly, the moral fiber. There are many people with whom I do not agree, but admire the courage of their convictions.
September 29, 2009 at 12:25 PM
Yes, Chatblu, I agree.
Check out the right sidebar – I added a Google News feeder for us. Nice, right? 
That terror suspect Zazi is pleading not guilty today. Yeah, there was a good reason why he was trundling through the store with baskets full of acetone. He just had a lot of nail polish to remove! (snark)
What I like about Zazi’s case is that the guy is actually getting a trial. He has not been sent to Gitmo, he has not been rendered to Egypt for torture. He is being treated as a potential criminal, just as he should be. That is the justice system in America. It should be that way for all suspected criminals.
September 29, 2009 at 1:20 PM
Hailey Barber of Mississippi became infamous for declining the bailout money in order to extend unemployment in his state – his theory is that he just doesn’t have the money to sustain the program, and I’m quite certain that he is absolutely correct, even though I think that in general, he is a pompous jerk. The loss of the very few manufacturing jobs has turned many Southern states into economic dustbowls.
There is one thing that governors scream about (and not just the ones from the South) and that is something from the feds called unfunded mandates. That’s my concern about what they’ll do with health care: Throw a bunch of people under an expanded Medicaid, not supply any funding for the states’ portion and say they’re done.
I was reading an article last night, where it states oil is running around $70/bbl right now. Louisiana is budgeting on oil at either $64 or 67/bbl. Each dollar above 64 yields an add’l 17 million to the state treasury. BUT: natural gas is plummeting in price. There’s a glut of it right now and parts of the revenue for the state are from the royalties on natural gas. The good thing about low prices: It will be cheaper to heat homes this winter and to produce electricity as most of the generating plants in LA use natural gas to run their turbines. The bad thing: if revenues from natural gas plummet, Louisiana, due to state constitutional restrictions on what they can cut and where, will probably make big cuts in higher education and health care (again); two things that oddly are not protected by the state constitution.
That’s why, Chat, when LSU goes to Athens, you won’t get to see the Golden Band from Tiger Land. One of the things they cut in higher education at LSU, was the 300+ member band going to any away games! Grrrrrr! 
September 29, 2009 at 1:29 PM
Fredster – Unfunded mandates, which the Republicans scream about, are things that Republican Presidents always seem to create. Like, No Child Left Behind, for example. Now, Obama may join his Reaganite colleagues in creating an unfunded healthcare mandate.
However, it’s early days yet. There is still no bill to vote upon. And with big hitters like Chuck Schumer behind a strong public option, it is very possible that the Baucus POS bill will not be the one that passes.
Here’s another petition from NOW to sign, if people are so inclined.
http://www.capwiz.com/now/issues/alert/?alertid=14105021
September 29, 2009 at 1:39 PM
MB: I’m afraid the “public option” is going to be an expanded Medicaid.
September 29, 2009 at 1:54 PM
I’m afraid the “public option” is going to be an expanded Medicaid.
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The devil is in the details and the details are still lacking for “Health Insurance Reform”. When it was announced that Medicaid benefits would be “extended” to 1.33% poverty line, it was also stated that he benefits to the newly qualified, would be reduced from the “generous” benefits of regular Medicaid. There was also mention that families with children SCHIP whose parents now qualify for Medicaid, the children would be moved to the “new” program. Something about that smells…
September 29, 2009 at 1:57 PM
Unfunded mandates
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The “unfunded mandate” in “Health Insurance Reform” is the mandate that the uninsured, who can’t afford health insurance now, are mandated to buy Junk health Insurance that they won’t be able to afford or get fined.
September 29, 2009 at 2:01 PM
Or imprisoned for non-compliance. Hopefully there is a huminatarian tyoe of clause that allpws for some assistance.
September 29, 2009 at 2:04 PM
We will miss the Golden Band, Fredster. They always put on a good show. You’ll just have to content yourself with the Georgia Redcoats.
September 29, 2009 at 2:04 PM
I just hope that We can get ourselves out of this box we’re in. The way things are right now, we’re not going to get anything but heartbreak and poverty out of “health insurance reform.”
September 29, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Hopefully there is a huminatarian tyoe of clause
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The humanitarian clause is the “Hardship” exemption. The means tested tax rebates are unlikely to help many people afford the required junk insurance.
September 29, 2009 at 2:12 PM
SHV, sounds like the “hardship” exemption is destined to be the median in this case.
September 29, 2009 at 2:47 PM
Well I’m not sure what will happen with me in my current (hopefully temporary?) situation.
I’m not working due to the fact that the momster needs someone around 24/7. I’m the primary caregiver for her. Meanwhile I still need some type of medical insurance for myself. I read somewhere that immediately upon signing whatever, they have plans that will allow for immediate coverage for those “in need”. I don’t know if I fit in that category or not. If they would immediately put in the stipulation that the ins. companies can’t deny you for pre-existing conditions, I’d even try to go with what’s available now. If they aren’t going to cover the HTN and hypocholestemia and associated problems, then I don’t know how much it’s worth it to purchase insurance. Those will be the things that will have an effect on doing me in.
Oh well, it will be interesting, to say the least, to see what they do. I’m doing okay on my meds with what is going on, and I get good prices on the meds by joining the Walgreens Savings Club thingie. I get a 90 day supply of the generic HTN med for $12.95. I can’t beat that. Same for the hztz and generic zocor. I just try to be careful and don’t run with knives or scissors!
September 29, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Or eat paste. Vis a vis the last thread, Fredster, I am not blowing smoke. My ‘Dawgs have some great running backs, and that seems to be your defensive weakness. Sadly, they require duct tape to hold onto the ball. Both of AZ State’s touchdowns were gifts from our running backs. You are favored to win, but it is in our house, and that counts in the SEC, no doubt.
September 29, 2009 at 4:02 PM
You are favored to win, but it is in our house, and that counts in the SEC, no doubt.
That’s a biggie when you have home field advantage. I’m sorry I just don’t have a lot of confidence in the boys right now. I’m more than certain we’ve got at least 2 losses coming up with FL and (shudder, yuck) Alabama.
Do you know what the spread is chat? I think home field is just an automatic 3 or 7.
September 29, 2009 at 4:04 PM
Or eat paste Whaddaya mean?? That’s my main entree’ ! 
OH: Public option voted down in Senate Finance Committee. Whoever may run against Baucus, I’m finding a way to send them $$$s. Bastard.
September 29, 2009 at 4:06 PM
I don’t know if I fit in that category or not. If they would immediately put in the stipulation that the ins. companies can’t deny you for pre-existing conditions
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That was part of the Insurance Company proposition for “Reform” in 2006. No pre-existings and no “dumping for expensive illness”. Those “generous” proposals were contingent on “a Federal mandate” and little or no restrictions on premium and price structure. Again the details are what will count but an “insurance policy” that has a $2-5,000 deductible and covers 65% of the persons medical cost doesn’t seem to offer much financial protection.
Obama’s method to bend the cost curve is to put the decision on the patient. It’s economic extortion. The 35% excise tax on “Cadillac” plans is especially onerous. People who have “Cadillac” plans ie. the ones with affordable deductibles, co-pays and that pay 80-90% medical costs will be phased out. The idea is to discourage people from “luxury” medical care. Therefore if your doctor recommends a CAT scan to evaluate blood vessel disease, it will be up to you to decide if it worth the $1200 out of pocket cost.
The 35% excise tax will be indexed to inflation, so with low inflation and unregulated 10% per year premium increases, employer based full medical will be history in the not too distant future.
September 29, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Fredster, I think that LSU is currently favored by 7. (You are #7 to our #18). Many of the sportscasters, however, are calling for an upset.
September 29, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Public option voted down in Senate Finance Committee.
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Just as well, it was a political ass cover for the faux-gressives and basically worthless for a patient. Even in the House version of “Insurance Reform”, there were so many “firewalls” to protect the Insurance “bidness” that even the so-called “Robust Public Option” was crap.
September 29, 2009 at 4:11 PM
I’ll join you in contributing to Baucus’ opponent. It will, however, be refershing to see pre-existings go. Time was, pre-existing clauses only had a lifespan of two years. Now it’s forever.
September 29, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Those f*cking *ssh0les.
Well, the measure still has to pass Congress, whatever the final bill is.
September 29, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Earthquake followed by tsunami in American Somoa. One known fatality.
September 29, 2009 at 5:59 PM
I have an Idea require all members of congress and the Senate to purchase a mandated health insurance plan thatwill suck as bad as the ones we will be forced to buy. It must have a $ 150,000 annual deductible per covered individual pays 20/80 (no its not backwards for every dollar in healcare the insurance reimburses 20 cents the congresscritter pays 80 cents)for every covered individual up to an annual maximum out of pocket of $ 1,000,000.00 then it pays 100% of all costs over a million per individual covered. These figures will be adjusted annually for inflation and congressional pay increases.
Make the monthly premium of $ 12,500 for each congressman/Senator $ 17,500.00 per month for their spouses (or significant partners mistresses/boytoys or secretaries that spend the night) and $ 19,500.00 monthly premium for each child under 18 or 25 if in school.
Penalty for each member who does not partisipate $ 1,500,000.00 and 20 years in prison hard labor mandatory minimum.
that would make me feel a little better. NOw if we could just get some congressional aide to slipe this in the crap bill they do pass….
September 29, 2009 at 6:09 PM
Wow, Fuzzy. There’s a motivational post if I ever saw one!
September 29, 2009 at 6:36 PM
As far as the Congress and the “The Federal Employees Health Benefits” program, I would like to know where they get the money to pay the premiums. Is it out of their pockets or can they use their office allowance, campaign funds, etc.
September 29, 2009 at 6:45 PM
Fredster, I think that LSU is currently favored by 7. (You are #7 to our #18)
Actually, we rose to #4, but I don’t believe it.
Time was, pre-existing clauses only had a lifespan of two years. Now it’s forever.
Well actually, chat, from what I saw on the bcbs-la website and a few others, it was for a year. I can only hope that is true.
September 29, 2009 at 6:47 PM
That was part of the Insurance Company proposition for “Reform” in 2006. No pre-existings and no “dumping for expensive illness”. Those “generous” proposals were contingent on “a Federal mandate” and little or no restrictions on premium and price structure. Again the details are what will count but an “insurance policy” that has a $2-5,000 deductible and covers 65% of the persons medical cost doesn’t seem to offer much financial protection.
SHV-I did see one blur somewhere (Ezra Klein?) that said there would be 3 tiers, basic was 65%, then I believe a 75% amount and then “premiere” or whatever that would be 85%. I’ll have to try to see if I can find that.
September 29, 2009 at 6:53 PM
SHV said
September 29, 2009 at 6:36 PM
As far as the Congress and the “The Federal Employees Health Benefits” program, I would like to know where they get the money to pay the premiums. Is it out of their pockets or can they use their office allowance, campaign funds, etc.
If they are like agencies, an agency gets a budgeted amount to cover the employers’ part of the premiums and the employee’s part comes out of pay-roll deduction. They have a budget for the operation of the Congress so I guess that part comes out of that operating budget. Now the employee’s part (the congress critter) who knows.
NFC (where I worked) didn’t run payroll for Congress, but we did for some agencies, esp. Agriculture since we were a part of them. I can tell you that the agency secretary’s payroll was not run as part of a regular bi-weekly payroll run. It was run as an “eyes only” kind of thing run separately and not just anyone and everyone had access to it.
September 29, 2009 at 6:56 PM
If they are like agencies, an agency gets a budgeted amount to cover the employers’ …
That was not written well. An agency gets its operating budget thru congressional appropriations and that’s where the “employers” part comes from.
I hope that clarifies it a bit better.
September 29, 2009 at 7:08 PM
Off to get something for din-din. I’ve still got some Ruby Tuesday buy one get one free coupons, they’re good through the 30th so guess where we’re eating tonight! 
September 29, 2009 at 7:16 PM
Soryr, Fredster, I guess you would rise up after “Upset Saturday” lossses by 4, 5, and 6. Anyhoo, you are ranked considerably higher.
September 29, 2009 at 8:56 PM
SHV-I did see one blur somewhere (Ezra Klein?) that said there would be 3 tiers, basic was 65%, then I believe a 75% amount and then “premiere” or whatever that would be 85%. I’ll have to try to see if I can find that.
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You can bet your a** that there will not be a “no balance billing” provision for the junk plans.
September 29, 2009 at 9:20 PM
I just can’t imagine that Congress could pass something so utterly horrible. I can only hope (and send money and letters and march) to embolden our public servants to actually stop this nightmare before it devastates our entire country.
On a more positive note…am watching Ken Burns’ documentary on National Parks: America’s Best Idea. It’s awesome!
September 29, 2009 at 10:13 PM
Chuck did propose a public option amendment – it went down in the finance committee along with another one. 4 Dems joined 10 GOP-ers. Schumer was actually quite vocal for public option throughout.
September 29, 2009 at 10:16 PM
I just can’t imagine that Congress could pass something so utterly horrible
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The fish rots from the head and blame for this fiasco belongs with Obama. If LBJ had, as Obama is trying to do, go with the easy way, no Medicare, no Civil Rights ACT, etc. Also, in those days a cloture vote was 67 not 60 as it is today.
September 29, 2009 at 10:21 PM
Chuck did propose a public option amendment
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The only vote that will count is if they vote against Obama’a health insurance reform. Schumer et al knew that they didn’t have the votes, so it’s political posturing as far as I am concerned. The Public option is a POS anyway so unless they had gone against Obama and fought for single-payer, they are no better than the Blue Dogs.
September 29, 2009 at 10:23 PM
SHV – Did you read Schumer’s bill? I didn’t. I am not sure that his public option is a POS. I know that Obama’s is.
September 29, 2009 at 10:26 PM
Also, SHV, I agree with you that the blame rests with Obama. But I always felt that the Democratic Congress would cave to whatever he wanted. That was another reason to vote for McCain – at least the crappy health care “reform” and other Bush-like policies would be coming from him instead of a fellow “D”, and the Dems would understand that they had to oppose him in order to remain politically viable. At least, that was the theory at the time.
September 29, 2009 at 10:50 PM
I am not sure that his public option is a POS.
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I haven’t read it either but doesn’t really make a difference. The “best” public option plan is not as good as single payer but, that being said, the only format for public option to work is for open enrollment into a government run plan. The HR 3200 Public option, at it’s best, would have allowed a max of 10 million to enroll, not enough to affect premium costs or to decrease the rise of health care costs in general. So any Public Plan that wouldn’t have the potential to enroll 130 million is a sham and political posturing, IMHO.
September 30, 2009 at 1:20 AM
Ah! Here’s what I was talking about regarding “tiers” of coverage:
Mr. Schumer’s proposal, for instance, calls for the public plan to be offered in several tiers: basic, enhanced and premium, and also allows for a premium-plus plan
From The Hill Harkin believes they’ve got the votes to pass public option in the Senate.
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September 29, 2009 at 8:11 AM
The entire RW ideology can be summed up: “Government is the enemy”. When it comes to healthcare, best answer comes from Obama’s former doctor – who speaks up for single payer: medicare never once interfered with my treatment of patients. It’s always private insurers who do that”
And also, on healthcare a surprising development: Senate wants to blow Obama’s deal with Pharma
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/09/29/uh-oh-big-pharma-is-in-it-again-maybe/