MW: The Sun’s Gotta Be Over The Yardarm Somewhere
Posted by madamab on November 8, 2009
Oh my goodness. What a week, Widdershins, what a week!
The House Bill was endorsed by a bunch of uptight guys in dresses. Whoop-de-doo! And this means exactly what? Why should a bunch of government officials care about what religious figures say? In what universe is this supposed to be relevant?
So much for the separation of Church and State being more honored by Barack Obama than George Bush. Yet another professed belief that was nothing but a lie.
I’m a big believer in the separation of church and state. I am a big believer in our constitutional structure. I’m a law professor at the University of Chicago teaching constitutional law.
Source: Chicago Sun-Times, “I have a deep faith” Apr 5, 2004
May I ask a screamingly obvious question?
Why are women supposed to vote for Democrats again?
Weren’t we all supposed to be terrified that Sarah Palin would ban abortion (as Vice President, I might add) and so we were supposed to elect Barack Obama instead to protect our reproductive rights? Didn’t NARAL and NOW and Planned Parenthood endorse him? Gosh, I wonder how they feel about their endorsements now that women who want to buy into a government option will have to pay extra for anything that remotely relates to their oogy, ooky reproductive organs?
I have news for “progressives” who smugly lectured us dumb wimminz against “voting with our vaginas.” Legal abortion, as well as legal contraception, are both on their way out, despite the “safety” of Roe vs. Wade, a purportedly Democratic Congress, a woman Speaker of the House, and “the most radical pro-abortion President ever,” according to the fundies.
Do you “progressives” get it now? Party affiliation means NOTHING when it comes to women’s rights. I would absolutely vote for a pro-choice Republican woman like Dede Scozzafava before I’d vote for a pro-life Democratic man. I wouldn’t even think for a millisecond. And from a feminist perspective, I would be right.
And yet, I see people on the Intertoobz who constantly claim that supporting female reproductive freedom is not the core of feminism. How in the name of the Goddess do people not understand that when you can’t decide whether or not to become pregnant or to carry your pregnancy to term; if you are legally barred from controlling your own body, you are nothing but a slave to the patriarchy. What about this is difficult to understand?
And “feminists” who supported Obama over Hillary, I hope you are royally ashamed of yourselves for screwing your sisters over so you could chase after the new guy. Way to go, ladies.
And speaking of supposed feminists? NOW, which had been doing so well under Terry O’Neill, has suddenly fallen under the spell of our Smooth-Talker-In-Chief. All of a sudden, after impassioned rhetoric like this, and this, NOW members are supposed to support this horrorshow of a bill. Why? To ensure the re-election of more Democrats who will continue to take us for granted and erode our equal rights more and more to please their fundiegelical constituents at the expense of the hundreds of millions of other Americans who are not fucking crazy? Why, why, WHY do we have to put up with this crap?
Of course, this awful week wouldn’t have been complete without a couple of crazed gun-toting maniacs killing people for no reason. Thank goodness that we, in our infinite enlightened wisdom, have allowed women to become police officers, or the massacre in Fort Hood might have been even more destructive.
I dunno about you, but I’m sick and tired of bad news. I don’t care what time it is; I need a drink! Hell, make it two or three.
This is an open thread.
edgeoforever said
Oh, yeah, reform, baby, reform!
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/women-under-the-bus-long-live-healthcare-reform/
chatblu said
Believe me, nothing matters but an 8×10 full-color glossy of BHO signing a health care bill.
chatblu said
NOW’s website has no posting that celebrates passage of the bill.
madamab said
Chatblu – wonder if we’ll get an email from feminist Terry today cheering on the anti-feminists’ win?
Check this out: almost all the Dems who voted against the legislation were Blue Dogs and/or come from mostly Republican districts. Only one woman voted against it, and the only liberal Dem who said “no” was Dennis Kucinich.
Link
Obama must have threatened to Bill Thompson/David Paterson them all. There is no way Carolyn Maloney would have voted for this unless she was forced to do so.
I wonder if people are getting it now, that the problem is Obama?
Valhalla said
After the primaries, I swore I wouldn’t vote for, support, or give money to a politician just because they were a Democrat. I decided I would only support or donate to particular people who I felt represented my interests. I never ruled out voting for a Republican in theory, although as a practical matter I doubted it would ever come up. So in practice I would probably have ended up mostly supporting a few Democrats or, if I got lucky, an Independent or two.
But last night I decided I couldn’t even do that much. Because even supporting the best of them indirectly supports the rest and just enables their cowardice and corporate lackey-dom. No, not even Ed Markey, my congressman who I’ve always loved. Of course he voted against the Stupak amendment, but then he voted for the health care bill. He has been in politics long enough and is smart enough to know that the bill is a piece of cr*p that will just hurt most the people who most need help, that it’s just a big giveaway to the insurance parasites, and it will not bring us an inch closer to single-payer (if anything it does the opposite). Supporting even just the really good ones just allows the rest of the party to continue the charade that they’re in any way for women, or for anyone besides themselves.
madamab said
Valhalla – it really sucks, doesn’t it?
I’m beginning to think that in 2010, we should all stay home and not vote at all, for either Party. A “voting Lysistrata,” if you will. (Of course men can do this too.)
I just can’t see how electing Republicans is going to work. The Dems will just think that people like Republicans more, and go even farther to the right.
Unless a third party arises between now and 2012, I don’t see what other choice I have except to not vote or give money to any political candidates. We should start understanding that our government is actively hostile to our interests, no matter which Party is in power.
DYB said
It’s astounding that Pelosi not only pushed this through, but is celebrating it. And I’m very disappointed in Carolyn Maloney. And good for Kucinich for saying “No.” The idea NOW is trying that push that we should make do with what we have and then hope for the best later is so absurd, it’s beyond stupid. It’s what the Human Rights Campaign has been saying since Obama’s come on to the scene. What this vote – and the fact that people like Maloney and Pelosi voted for it – shows me is that frankly Democrats have no principles. They’ll vote Yes for a bag of peanuts and a pat on the head; that’s what they’re doing now.
madamab said
DYB – I may have been wrong about Maloney…at EOF’s place is a list of Dems who voted yes, and her name wasn’t there. She may have abstained or have not been there due to her husband’s recent passing.
I think that the only principles most of our Congresscritters have have to do with keeping their jobs. They’ll do anything to stay in that seat. And that goes for both parties.
DYB said
A woman I used to work with – she called me a “crazy fucking Republican” when I said I was not an Obama supporter during the primaries – just posted a Facebook status update in which she laments the exclusion of abortion coverage, saying it’s a dangerous step to outlawing abortions. But – and this is where the kool-aid kicks in – she does not in any way blame Obama or Pelosi. She thinks they are champions of women’s rights and did this because they absolutely had to. The level of stupidity really boggles the mind. She blames only the Republicans. I pointed out that Obama once declared that abortion was not a matter of women’s rights, but a moral issue – and that FOCA was not important – but she ignored it. How conveeenient!
edgeoforever said
DYB:
Obama also declared- about this very bill
DYB said
Thanks for pointing that out, EoF! I just posted this quote for this woman with the question: “Is there more than one way to interpret this statement?”
DYB said
Does anyone know when Obama made his “FOCA is not a priority” statement? What speech was that in? I know he said that abortion rights were not women’s rights during his Notre Dame speech.
madamab said
DYB – that was the same speech. I wrote about it at the time. I’ll pull up the post for you.
Valhalla said
madamab — yes, it’s hard not to be discouraged. I would much rather be able to be for something or to support someone or something than to deny or hold back from something.
But I can no longer for the life of me support a single one of these craven cowards. Ok, maybe if Kucinich was from my district, it would be a hard choice.
I don’t think voting for or electing more Republicans will work either, but threatening a Rep or Senator with losing their seat to one because they didn’t stand up for liberal values when it counted might scare them into having a backbone next time. I admit, it’s not a big chance, and it’s certainly a big risk (of a Republican winning). But it’s all I have left. Although if anyone else has any better ideas I’m open.
Over at Open Left there’s a big discussion about primarying various Blue Dogs and other Dems who voted for the Stupak amendment. I tried to post a comment but it got swallowed up. But I think all the focus on primarying Blue Dogs is misdirected energy. Blue Dogs don’t care and won’t be influenced by a bunch shouting “progressives”. But progressive politicians might, if they realize that they can no longer depend on the whole “where ya gonna go?” cr*p-out (maybe I mean cop-out).
To me, the problem ISN’T the Blue Dogs and cretins who voted for the Stupak amendment. It’s the “progressives” who voted FOR the health care bill even though the Stupak amendment was part of it.
madamab said
Here ya go. All the way back in April, yet.
Obama Declares War on Pro-Choice Americans; No One Notices
For paying attention to this, I was called hysterical and told I was overreacting.
I really wish I had been.
Cream City said
Valhalla, I agree — and I am shifting, too, from just not voting or doing anything for bad Dems to also giving up on the so-called “good” Dems. They are not good pols if they cannot pressure their party colleagues to abide by the party platform and principles.
My member of Congress is a “good” Dems who voted “good” yesterday — but could have done more to stop others from being “bad.” And now the bill goes to the Senate, where both of my Senators are “good” Dems by their votes. But one does little more than that. And the other is the patron saint of Progressives who could rally them all across the country to pressure their Dem Senators — but he won’t do so, either.
So I’m done with them all. Heck, I’m dealing with a pay cut thanks to my state’s Dem governor and Dem legislature, so I have less to give to Dems, anyway. But email is free, so my member of Congress and my Senators will hear why I no longer will vote even for “good” Dems who are not good enough pols to be able to pressure their own members to vote like good Dems, too.
madamab said
I get what you’re both saying, Valhalla and Cream City. I just don’t know what to do about it.
Other countries have had popular uprisings when they are in the grip of tyranny. Maybe we could get something like that going soon. I feel like many of the “progressive” bloggers are finally starting to understand what a fraud Obama is and how their party loyalty has earned them nothing.
I do think electing more women will help, but that’s a long-term solution. We need to make our voices heard ASAP.
Valhalla said
Cream City! Long time, no see. Happy to see you here.
The rallying factor you bring up is an important one. Voting the right way it just the least we should be able to expect — necessary but not sufficient. From a practical point of view, without being willing to fight, no politician no matter how liberal they present themselves as, they are not doing their job unless they’re willing to draw a line in the sand over important things and actually fight for them. The Republicans never back down, and that has worked for them time and again. It’s so obvious that it’s almost impossible to believe that the “good” politicians don’t see it.
janicen said
I voted for the Democrats here in VA on Tuesday. I wasn’t excited about voting for Deeds, but I figured it had to be better than voting for McDonnell. I’m sorry I voted for either party. I honestly don’t think I can force myself to vote for either party again, unless Hillary runs, which isn’t going to happen. I’ll vote third party (unless there’s a crazy running) or I’ll just skip the line. I want to vote for women, but the whole party affiliation thing is really giving me pause. What a mess I am handing off to my daughter.
madamab said
Janicen, I am sure I would have done the same as you did, if I voted at all.
I wonder what would happen if millions of women and LGBT didn’t vote or participate in politics in 2010? How legitimate would the elections seem then?
Maybe that’s the way we should go. Just say no to our corrupt political process. Have a REAL Tea Party movement, not sponsored by either Party.
Beata said
My Blue Dog representative, Baron Hill, voted for the Stupak Amendment. I am so proud.:(
In the past several months, Hill has variously said that he supports a public option ( to voters who want one ) and that that he doesn’t support a public option ( to voters who are against one ). Go figure.
Hill backed Obama in the Indiana primary ( and was well paid for doing so ).
In 2010, no liberal challenger has a chance of beating Hill in my conservative state’s primary. So I will have the choice of voting for his re-election, while holding a barf bag in one hand, or voting for a right-wing nutcase who is probably packing heat at a Monster Truck Rally as we speak. Or I can stay home.
Lousy choices….
janicen said
I agree with you Madamab, but every election day, I think of the Suffragists who risked everything to earn my right to vote and I go and vote. I can’t, not vote. However, I’m at the point that I don’t think I can ever vote for a man again. Especially if he is a member of either party. It’s starting to feel like we not only lost our reproductive rights, but we’ve lost our right to vote because we are given no acceptable candidate.
madamab said
Beata – that lousy choice is what they count on (the Dems) to keep us wimminz in line. The Repubs are so totally nuts that we can’t vote for ‘em, but then, the Dems take us for granted and screw us to the wall anyway.
I am serious – maybe we should do a political version of Lysistrata. Just don’t vote, don’t donate, don’t do anything until our concerns are addressed.
madamab said
Except that I understand where janicen is coming from too.
My only consolation is that the Senate will kill this bill. But knowing them, their version will be worse, if they even pass one.
Beata said
But Madamab, in my district ( ” The Bloody Ninth ” ) even a half dozen or so votes can make a difference next November. If I stay home, and Rep. Heat Packer (R) is elected, how is that teaching the Dems a lesson? It just leaves me and everyone in my district with a REALLY BAD representative for at least 2 years. That impacts real people’s lives adversely. I can’t do that in good conscience.
BTW, Maloney voted against Stupak and argued strongly for abortion funding in the bill.
Valhalla said
Well, I am still going to go to the polls if there are ballot questions I think are important. And maybe if there are local races I think are important. Although that hardly ever happens where I live, since Democrats have such a lock on the area that only the primaries matter and they are pretty much all the same anyway. That will have to be a case-by-case basis.
But next year Deval Patrick will have to depend on the dwindling number of people who still believe his proto-Obama ‘hope and change’ shtick, because I’m staying home.
DYB said
Thanks for the link, MB.
So let’s assemble a series of quotes from Obama.
1) During debate with McCain (I think at Hofstra) he said that women need to consult with their pastors? And he also said that Roe v. Wade was not a litmus test for him when choosing a Supreme Court nominee. (Ironically, McCain said the same thing.)
2) Obama declares that FOCA is not a priority and that abortion rights are not women’s rights.
3) Obama declares to Congress that no federal money would be used to pay for abortions and that the conscience laws will remain in place.
How does one reconcile these statements from the horse’s mouth with Obama being a champion of women’s rights? (Does anyone have handy the exact quotes from these?)
DYB said
Oh, and they pulled money for Planned Parenthood from the stimulus package, right?
Valhalla said
Beata — if a Republican wins because all the liberals/”progressives” stay home, the Democrats will get the message that they cannot take our support for granted. No more “where else are you gonna go?”, because you have place to go: home, as in I’m stayin’ there.
It’s the threat of losing before an election that is the most powerful, of course, but if they lose some seats then that’s on them for not doing the right thing when it counted. It is their responsibility to represent us, not our responsibility to keep them in office and compromising away our rights year after year.
Esp. if you’re someone who normally gives money to the Democratic party or even just a few Democratic candidates, and cut that off with the message of why. That’s all they care about anyway, the money.
But it’s all about enablement — as long as they can take our votes for granted, they’ll never balk at anything.
Fredster said
Hey Cream City, sorry I took your response wrong last night. I apologized back there.
I saw last night that Repr. Cao of the 2nd LA Disrict, a Repub. voted for the bill. But it might have been an act of self-preservation as the 2nd is the majority/minority district that Bill Jefferson (D-crook) had held. Still, a yes is a yes.
Also, I wonder if vasectomies are covered? Isn’t that a form of birth control? And I’m sure anything dealing with the prostate will be covered!
Beata said
Valhalla – Your argument sounds good in theory but losing a seat won’t teach the Dems anything in my district. A few years ago my Dem Rep, Baron Hill, lost narrowly to a really scary right-winger. Did the Dems learn a lesson from that? No – they ran Hill again two years later and he regained his seat by a narrow margin. A liberal challenger will not replace him – ever – and he will never be anything but a Blue Dog. That’s just the way it is in my district. Hill isn’t very good but he’s a h*ll of a lot better than a right-winger.
Boo Radly said
“NOW Opposes Health Care Bill That Strips Millions of Women of Abortion Access
Says Bill Obliterates Women’s Fundamental Right to Choose”
Finally a statement. I can’t bring myself to post anymore regarding the devolvement of the “D” party. All that is happening was baked in the cake – done deal. No surprises but still SICKENING! How people with a pulse can parse, use terms like “camel’s nose” or spend 2 seconds imagining anything else is going to come of healthcare is truly beyond me. We still do not know the real terms of this POS insurance reform – we will not know after the Senate does their act – gotta keep it under wraps til after the election – that’s going to be tricky – watch the corporate shills spin. We are in the Dark Ages compared to European counties. We do not have nor have we had a two party system for over a decade. It is not what His Oiliness “wants” – he cares not a fig for any action – only a bunraku figure – the only reason he is in office. Using the term Dark Ages is very fitting as females will be denied medical care which used to be a human right for them.
NOW’s statement is a good start. I guess, you really can’t speak against something that changes daily, no one has read but you know the fungilicals(fungies as in fungus) have their hand in it along with the greedy insurance companies.
I’m a little rusty – have not commented in a long time, but my rage burns on. Think I will reach out and touch(email) the little representative for this area – Blue Dog Heath Shuler. That office is 0 for 5 in replying to my comments and questions, hm, wonder why? When even the Rethugs in this area fugure out this bill, he is going to have to stay out of this district. The enlightenment can’t happen to soon for me.
Fredster said
Oh, and I saw my congress critter, Melancon voted against. I’m not surprised because he’s Catholic and represents a heavily Catholic area. Plus, he’s running to replace Vitter.
Now here’s a quandary: Melancon is running to replace Vitter and I’ve already gotten an email asking for $$$s. He’d be better than Vitter any day of the week, but he voted no on the health insurance bill. What to do, what to do…
Cream City said
We’re good, Fred. I guess I do need all the friends that I can get now, as my own family — all sibs are men — was so rejoicing on email last night. So I lit into them about how bad the bill is for women and others singled out. And so one of them penned an email to another about how impossible I have become, a really nasty email . . . but somehow, in quite the Freudian slip, sent it to me. Hmmm.
Anyway, to Jaricen: I hear you. I always think of the suffragists, and it always gets me out to the polls even in the most impossible weather and on crazily hectic days. But I think others here have the answer in doing what I did last year: Go to the polls, vote on issues, or maybe local candidates, but leave some parts of the ballot blank.
That really would point out to the party, if it cares, that it is not that we are apathetic or lazy or the other excuses they use for not rallying the voters to the polls. It would show them that we do go to the polls but refuse to participate anymore in the fraudulent politics being practiced at the top — from the state level up for some of us, or only at the national level for others of us.
They say that all politics is local. That’s my byword now — all the politics in which I will participate (unless it is to participate in some other people’s local politics, i.e., to send money to whomever opposes Stupak, Dem or Repub, and I wrote to tell him so!).
madamab said
Well, thank Gawd NOW found its spine again!
Gotta make some lunch. BBL.
Cream City said
Btw, yes, Fred, I don’t see anything that would exclude coverage of vasectomies. Or, of course, prostate cancer. Or, for that matter, sickle-cell anemia or anything else that specifically requires those of any particular group of legal residents to pay more for coverage of their body parts or conditions to which they alone are prone.
(Undocumented immigrants do appear to be excluded, too, although there are contradictory analyses of the bill on that — and let it be said that I also entirely oppose the requirement that they be denied the public option and thus also pay more for coverage. Many of them do pay taxes, for one thing, that now will pay to privilege white men even more.)
Fredster said
Well this just infuriates the shit out of me that they won’t cover routine gyn exams for women because of all of the implications, disease-wise for women. Part of what this was **supposed** to do was to be able to get patients in a preventative mode instead of having people w/no insurance show up very sick at e.r’s. This, as it stands, will do just the opposite. How will this help by not covering a routine gyn exam and then later finding out a woman has late stage ovarian or fallopian tube cancer? What has been accomplished by this? Nothing except the possible early ending of a female life!
Fredster said
Btw, yes, Fred, I don’t see anything that would exclude coverage of vasectomies. Or, of course, prostate cancer.
LOL! It’s okay for a finger up the butt of a guy, but no fooling around with a woman’s’ vajayjay!
Hmmmmm…
Fredster said
Well, off to watch the rest of the Saints game. Carolina came out charging and it’s 14-3 Panthers. I don’t like this after yeterday!
Cream City said
My (grown) daughter arrives, and we get into discussing this — as it really will affect her so much, laid off and on COBRA and with previous signs of potential lady-parts problems (and admitting to me now that she has not gotten back to her ob-gyn as she was told to do, because she cannot afford the costs not covered already).
So now we wonder if this is going to impact COBRA as well — government health care that now no longer will cover even basic pelvic exams, etc.? Watch for that from this group in Congress.
And she wonders about things like the shots she got, and that her younger girl cousins ought to soon get, that are the new vaccine against cervical cancer. So because the shots are for ob-gyn sorts of protection, are they not going to be covered? Or, as this funny daughter of mine says, are the shots going to be covered because they are given in the arm, above the waist?!
That really shows how incredibly ignorant of women’s anatomy and biology is this bill — and those who wrote it and support it.
madamab said
As chatblu asked earlier, how do you give a Pap smear without doing a pelvic exam?
Heck, I had a sonogram because they were worried I had a cyst. Guess I’d have to pay extra in this newfangled era of the shiny new hopeychangey Democratic Party..
madamab said
It’s so crazy. On the one hand, they tell us that the insurance companies will no longer be allowed to charge women more than men. But on the other hand, they are charging us extra for everything to do with our scary ladyparts, whereas men are fully covered.
So really, even that supposed benefit is negated.
Cream City said
Boo, so good to see you again, too — and thanks for the tip to see what NOW is up to, if belatedly.
I am here with all you wise people partly in hope that there will be some sort of organized reaction by women. I said in disgust last year that I just am too old to keep fighting these fights, and let the cool and trendy nu voters find out what they did . . . but darn it, this bill is such a slap in the face that I find I’m ready to fight again. So I’m watching to see what happens next. . . .
chatblu said
Sadly, most ovrian cancer is found way too late. Unlike cervical cancer which is slow, ovarian cancer is rapidly progressive. Any ovarian cancer caught early is a serendipitous find.
janicen said
Cream City, I’m sorry about your relationship with your brothers, but you should know you are not alone. I have had relationships with both friends and family suffer because of the election in 2008 and because I dare to speak up for women. Isn’t it odd that they resent me, but I don’t resent them despite their misogynistic ways. I can forgive them for being products of the patriarchy but they cannot forgive me for challenging it.
Fredster said
Cream City-If your daughter is on COBRA and gets toward the end of that coverage, have her contact the insurance carrier to see about a direct pickup the day after the COBRA expires. I found out about this on another site. She should be able to convert to a private policy, that is, if she can afford it. But it should be continuous coverage, one ends the other picks up the next day.
Sadly, most ovrian cancer is found way too late. Unlike cervical cancer which is slow, ovarian cancer is rapidly progressive. Any ovarian cancer caught early is a serendipitous find.
Chat-can ovarian be discovered by pain or tenderness in the abdominal area or anything similar? I know that’s vague, but if true, would a physician start a process of ruling out problems?
Fredster said
Off topic but my Saints pulled out a win, 30-20 so they are 8-0
The first time in franchise history!!
Now I have to see what Miss Ida is going to do in the Gulf. There are already watches out for LA over to FL. It’s expected to weaken before it comes ashore but there are watches for coastal flooding and stuff too. Although we’re not down there the house still is.
chatblu said
Ovarian cancer’s signs are vague. The most commonly reported sympton is a sensation of bloating, and that wouldn’t send most people to a doctor. Freadter go to Weather Underground and select “Tropical”. They have computer models, forecasts, etc.
Boo Radly said
CC – always good to read your comments – I have to read you and Anne. I am past being polite – way past and you both speak truth eloquently, as does Mad and Chatblu.
madamab said
Cream City – I think this bill may finally be the match that strikes the fire. Enough is enough!
I have thought for quite some time that women should organize around one issue: the ERA. In this country, civil rights trickle down from the federal level, and the ERA would make bills like the House bill unConstitutional.
I am waiting to see what NOW will do with this. I think now that all our predictions about Obama and his misogyny and fake feminism are coming true, we who did not support him because of that misogyny will have a lot more credibility than we did before, when no one really knew what he was going to do.
chatblu said
Why, thank you, Boo. And, I agree. The communication from NOW is terse-they may actually have noticed that this isn’t going well.
Beata said
Re: Women’s Reproductive Health
The frightening thing about ovarian cancer is that by the time it is diagnosed, it is usually too late to treat it.
BTW, ladies, if you are ever diagnosed with fibroids, don’t be talked into having a hysterectomy to remove them. It is almost always unnecessary. There are other ways to treat fibroids ( which are non- cancerous growths ). Educate yourself and try to keep all your precious lady-parts if you can. So many OB/GYNs are quick to want to gut you – it is an easy way for them to make some $$$. Unfortunately, even female OB/GYNs are all too willing to go for the knife.
madamab said
You are right about that, Beata. They do. My aunt had a hysterectomy and now she regrets it very deeply. It had all kinds of side effects that they did not tell her about.
And thanks for the compliment, Boo!
chatblu said
@47- Congrats to the Saints. They have come a long way from the teams of the past when the fans wore paper bags over their heads in the stands. They may just be the best 4th quarter team that I have ever seen.
Cream City said
Lots of useful info here. Thanks, Fred, for the tip re COBRA (ugh, it’s awful, but it’s something) for my daughter. Thanks, Jaricen, for the condolences; yes, it has been awful with my brothers for more than a year now, but some had managed to get back on reasonably good behavior (because I told them to stop emailing me with their Obama love!) — but Thanksgiving is now making me tense, as I was ready to try again, especially for the first Thanksgiving for my new daughter-in-law (from another country), but I will have to see. . . .
And thanks as ever, Boo — and yes, Anne has been brilliant on this as ever, so good that BTD dares not take her on. But I’m one of the ones whom he is attacking and insulting on this issue to a level unseen before. I have more than enough brothers acting like fools and hardly need another guy doing so. . . .
And Madamab: yes, yes, and yes — this again points to the need for reviving the ERA campaign. I teach and it preach it all the time, and maybe now the young ones will start to get it and get going. As we are too old to be heeded now, apparently we will need them at least for show — y’know, like they were used last year by Dems. But by now, after so many years of seeing our causes go backwards, I begin to wonder what it will take with these young women.
First step is to get those @#$%! earbuds and cell phones and etc. out of their ears, I swear. Then maybe they will hear their rights crashing and shattering around them!
chatblu said
CC, they have trouble believing the pre-Roe world of coathangers.
madamab said
Cream City – you are undeserving of such treatment, and BTD is totally undeserving of you. I am so sorry he doesn’t appreciate you. Just know you are always welcome here! And glad you and Fredster have kissed and made up. We do try to keep TW civil.
I tried to read one of BTD’s posts about Obama recently. It had a strongly critical title and seemed to be very negative towards the Prez. But by the end, he had pretzelfied into worship again. It was really a masterpiece of doublespeak.
I don’t like people who talk out of both sides of their mouth. That’s why I didn’t like Obama, and that’s why I haven’t been back to TL in a long time.
Fredster said
Chat said: @47- Congrats to the Saints. They have come a long way from the teams of the past when the fans wore paper bags over their heads in the stands. They may just be the best 4th quarter team that I have ever seen.
Yep, courtesy of Mr. Brees the Saints ain’t the AINT’s anymore.
And yes, I always check Weatherunderground when it’s tropical season. It’s just so strange to have one this late in the season other than that horrible year of ‘05 and Katrina and they ran out of names!